Gajim - 2025-07-05

new gajim update \o\ /o/

looks so CLEAN

> I think some upstream libraries are preventing the Gajim team from implementing this, unfortunately. But I hope upstream merges those changes so that Gajim can then add support for calling. 🤞 Can you expand on what you mean by upstream libraries? eg base dependencies? ↺

PMR: See https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/merge_requests/995

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master imprv: Add support for the urgency hint on win32 - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/926da541511ec9141d8899c884e4acb6d7eb3f40

don't know if you was aware of this, but Gajim is not accessible under Windows, it seems GTK has zero accessibility bindings outside of UNIX ✏

wurstsalat pushed 3 commits to branch gajim/master other: Windows dev env: Remove superfluous pygobject-stubs config - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/2b19339434e0c0ce8e382980918961f61d04da79 ci: Tests: Remove superfluous pygobject-stubs config - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/752bb2fef2faa0a89760ddcb12f6a49ca83e9323 imprv: Preferences: Improve display of locked settings - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/70533bda6bfae4447952d3393032665b3b64aa5f

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master fix: Windows: Make --user-profile work correctly with portable installations - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/55a5bb9f2af99d3778d4160083dddb12db0fb5db

> don't know if you was aware of this, but Gajim is not accessible under Windows, it seems GTK has zero accessibility bindings outside of UNIX https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/section-accessibility.html#implementations > Each GtkAccessible implementation must provide a GtkATContext instance, which acts as a proxy to the specific platform’s accessibility API: > Active Accessibility on Windows ↺

> https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/section-accessibility.html#implementations > > Each GtkAccessible implementation must provide a GtkATContext instance, which acts as a proxy to the specific platform’s accessibility API: > > Active Accessibility on Windows is it something we need to change inside Gajim or a thing to change in msys2? ✏ ↺

What have you tested under Linux or Windows: Keyboard navigation, screen reading, ...?

Regarding the latter: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/11147#note_207283 > GTK does not provide any context from alone, we have to fill out the accessibility fields for example in Glade

> What have you tested under Linux or Windows: Keyboard navigation, screen reading, ...? I tried screenreader (NVDA) and it can only read the window title, nothing else ↺

> Regarding the latter: > https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/11147#note_207283 > > GTK does not provide any context from alone, we have to fill out the accessibility fields for example in Glade this issue seems very old, Glade is not for GTK4, do we have examples of such accessibility fields in the current Gajim code? ↺

(and do you know such cool tool as glade but for GTK4?)

> (and do you know such cool tool as glade but for GTK4?) personally no, since Gtk4 I've started hacking XML files directly :D ↺

> personally no, since Gtk4 I've started hacking XML files directly :D I don't really know GTK4, but if you or someone else can understand how to add this accesibility fields in XML and provide an example, I will be happy to work on all accessibility fields for Gajim ↺

Codimp, I will look into it later today shortly and see if I can archive something from where you can take over.

> Codimp, I will look into it later today shortly and see if I can archive something from where you can take over. thanks a lot! ↺

but I would recommend to read the page https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/section-accessibility.html anyway to understand some background. ✏

I already read most of this page some days ago to start to understand it ^^

``` <object class="GtkButton" id="button1"> <accessibility> <property name="label">Download</property> <relation name="labelled-by">label1</relation> </accessibility> </object> ```

needs to be added like this, but i hope if the button has a label, it does not need to be added additionally here

but should be easy to test

and also if the label here needs a "translatable=true"

cool, thanks lovetox i will try this soon

> I tried screenreader (NVDA) and it can only read the window title, nothing else I'm testing Orca Screen Reader, it can read many things indeed: When I click into the search, it says "Entry search" and so on.

> > I tried screenreader (NVDA) and it can only read the window title, nothing else > I'm testing Orca Screen Reader, it can read many things indeed: When I click into the search, it says "Entry search" and so on. > yes with Orca it works ↺

https://discourse.gnome.org/t/rust-gtk4-apps-how-to-access-applications-using-nvda-on-windows/24631/2 > There’s currently no accessibility support on Windows and macOS; we are planning to add that as part of the introduction of AccessKit, but it’s not an easy task from Oct 2024 ✏

thanks mesonium,

argh, so sad, I will still try to look at the accessibility fields, maybe it's a good thing to add

i would first check if something is missing on linux

Gtk sets these fields with defaults

i just checked some buttons, and as long as they have a tooltip or label inside, this is set as accessibility label

so this is usually only needed for custom widgets

oh ok, crap :(

and maybe something like the chat list rows

gajim in flatpak does not support calls, right?

wait

> gajim in flatpak does not support calls, right? calls support has been removed since 2.0.0 in every Gajim version ↺

https://blog.gtk.org/2025/05/12/an-accessibility-update/ > We merged the AccessKit a11y backend in GTK 4.18. This is pretty big news for GTK on platforms other than Linux. For the very first time, GTK applications can be accessible on Windows and macOS. This is also the first rust dependency in GTK. ✏

it's absolutely new, just 2 months old

> https://blog.gtk.org/2025/05/12/an-accessibility-update/ > > We merged the AccessKit a11y backend in GTK 4.18. This is pretty big news for GTK on platforms other than Linux. For the very first time, GTK applications can be accessible on Windows and macOS. This is also the first rust dependency in GTK. oh woaw, very good news yes, do we know if we build Gajim Windows version with GTK 4.18? ↺

you can check that in the help -> about -> trouble shooting -> debug info dialog ✏

yep, 4.18.6

but still not accessible, curious…

it says > If you want to try it out, build GTK with the -Daccesskit=enabled build option, and set > `GTK_A11Y=accesskit` > in the environment. Maybe that's not the case for the gtk 4.18 msys2 package

yep I was thinking about this too

Codimp, can you try to set the env variable for Gajim?

I'm not really a "Windows person" ahah, but I will try

it don't seem to work

> If you are ever uncertain which a11y backend GTK is using, you can find this information in the inspector. https://blog.gtk.org/files/2025/05/Screenshot-From-2025-05-12-08-20-56.png

what does it say for you?

Codimp, start Gajim with the following env variable and check the output: GTK_A11Y=help

For me on Fedora 42 it says ``` Supported arguments for GTK_A11Y environment variable: accesskit - Disabled during GTK build atspi - Use the AT-SPI accessibility backend test - Use the test accessibility backend none - Disable the accessibility backend help - Print this help ```

under linux no problem, but I don't have this under windows

so you don't see this help text under Windows in the terminal? weird

I don't have gtk4-demo under windows

i will need to package it with msys2 i think

why are you looking for the gtk4-demo now?

oh you're right, it also show for Gajim, but not under Windows

I'm asking in the msys2 Discord :-/ room if the build option is lacking and if it could be enabled in the future

thanks

Codimp, what is the reason?

> Codimp, what is the reason? reason of what? ↺

Why removing calls?

While leaving the button to make them in place.

> Why removing calls? it's explained here: https://gajim.org/posts/2025-02-28-gajim-2.0.0-released/ under "Jingle File Transfer and Audio/Video Calls" ↺

lol

I love Windows, got a space in my username and cannot build gtk4 with gintrospection

I built it w/o now but enabled accesskit

I built the windows dev env with msys2

when running "GTK_A11Y=accesskit ./launch.py" I get lot of: "Unrecognized accessibility backend "accesskit". Try GTK_A11Y=help"

> I love Windows, got a space in my username and cannot build gtk4 with gintrospection classic ↺

with help it says "acesskit - Disabled during GTK build"

Codimp: did you compile gtk4?

nope, i just installed the package

You need to add the flag for accesskit in the pkgbuild file

yep, i will try

You also need to install: patch cmake ninja mingw-w64_x86_64-accesskit-c

I'm building it with the acesskit option enabled

a luck it's an Arch env :D

it works!

and all seems accessible!

thanks a lot mesonium I will send a PR in msys2 to built the package with accesskit enabled by default

Hu wanted to the same, but go ahead

as you prefer ^^

can you link your MR here: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/11147 for tracking?

> classic `cp -r "/home/user name" /home/username"` in msys2 did the trick to build gtk also with gintrospection ↺

> can you link your MR here: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/11147 for tracking? done ;) ↺

3 friends using Gajim on Windows says that they can't shutdown Windows when Gajim is running, they need to force kill it

maybe some "SIGTERM" that Gajim don't receive when Windows shutdown?

Codimp: maybe it's the worker processes?

don't know, but this issue wasn't here on 1.9.5 for example

It says, app prevents shut down?

Yeah I think that's the issue. Ask them if they can reproduce it when they restart Gajim and shutdown and when they restart Gajim, receive or send some picture, where a thumbnail is generated and then shutdown ✏

> It says, app prevents shut down? here is the screen I reproduce inside a VM: ↺

https://xmpp.lithio.fr:5281/file_share/06869785-24fe-7970-88a3-8d1f6560d3b0/2025-07-05_21-08-20.jpg

sorry it's in french, but it say: "Closing an app and shutdown" "Gajim This app prevents shutdown"

the buttons say "force shutdown" and "cancel"

if I cancel, i go back to my windows desktop and Gajim is freeze ("This program is not responding")

They should enable debug logs and send them

Codimp: I could reproduce it in the latter case mentioned above

yep same, i will try debug logs

But that would be a weird coincidence every time

I let Gajim run without doing anything, then at 21:18:06 I shutdown Windows, here are the logs at this time: https://paste.notiz.fr/?9e3c67c4304fee8d#CCzUsFeiXFSXfjP6VEqj3pcz8GXgJMCuPZTohJbJnM24

Its pystray, the tray icon running in a separatee thread

We need to listen to window's "shutdown signal" and properly quit gajim. Otherwise the thread blocks gajim from quitting

Same problem when running from terminal and ctrl-c'ing

> We need to listen to window's "shutdown signal" and properly quit gajim. Otherwise the thread blocks gajim from quitting this is a good idea anyway to properly quit the xmpp stream

You are right, my case was just pure coincidence. :)

But we dont do this for Gajim

i dont see how a thread blocks windows from shutting down

i think we should this report to pysystray

they have somekind of window mainloop, and in this loop windows tells them if the system shutsdown, and they need to respond in a certain way

> Windows Vista will solve this by allowing users to terminate the blocking application and make shutdown "forceful." In a forceful shutdown, Windows will send applications WM_QUERYENDSESSION with the ENDSESSION_CRITICAL flag. If an application responds FALSE

https://github.com/moses-palmer/pystray/blob/master/lib/pystray/_win32.py#L39aC5-L395C16

maybe lets debug what the mainloop in pystray receives and how it handles it

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/desktop/mpc/application-shutdown-changes-in-windows-vista

lovetox, have you seen https://github.com/moses-palmer/pystray/issues/177 ?

how do you think this is relevant?

Nvm, sorry

also our code ignores the show systray setting

and always runs the tray icon

> (and do you know such cool tool as glade but for GTK4?) https://flathub.org/apps/ar.xjuan.Cambalache ↺

I'm trying to do UI stuff with Workbench. They have Blueprint support, which is way nicer to type down than XML

https://apps.gnome.org/de/Workbench/

just built the Gajim installer with accesskit working \o/

I will make a small PR to include accesskit in the Gajim base build env for Windows