Gajim - 2025-04-05

When you press the workspace button

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/EMpoowbtOuwXG7TLPrZIsJqTmAlRav3HulLECQQO/de0d2755-aa3c-473e-99d7-76cba1f5adf5.png

It expands the rooms tab but if you press it again, it does not close it back

I think it should

Also pressing the workspace button, should not exit the current room

like this

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/b6kjPXQBeC5EZdmpEt4c4Gc7rrTSRhRYSEiqg6dO/047cb053-e10b-40dd-bba1-96c7f9deb36f.png

> > Yes > > And it will stay that way for a time because an update failed > from lovetox, 2 days ago is there something i could do to help? i did some gitlab admin stuff at my last job ↺

Hi. I uploaded an html file of about 2.5 MB to a chat window, and after the upload the window seems to download it again (calls it "loading preview"). This download process takes several minutes. I seem to recall that a picture (e.g. jpg) of the same size was much faster. Anyway, is that normal behavior (taking that long)? Perhaps it depends on the server.

ben: https://forum.gitlab.com/t/upgrade-failed-17-8-2-to-17-10-3/123885

Sometimes it is required to update gitlab to an intermediate version first, before going to the latest release. See https://docs.gitlab.com/update/upgrade_paths/

yes but not in our case

hm or yes actually

thanks will check this

Good morning, can gajim, like conversations, take the avatar and name from a contact book?

No

Okey thx

Little question: Has there been any discussion about making shared Gajim “workspaces”? Similar to a Matrix Space or a Discord Server, you could conveniently have all chat rooms belonging to a specific community in one place. It looks like right now, everyone would need to manually manage their own workspaces, rather than having it automatic like on Matrix Spaces. Having the option to do it manually is already really cool. (Neither Discord nor Matrix (Element) have that as far as I know.) If it is not obvious, I am new to Gajim and XMPP (I haven't used it since the Google debacle), so do enlighten me if there is such functionality already.

JulianGro: currently workspaces cannot be shared. But there are people working on a standard for that, so they can be shared

cal0pteryx: Is there anywhere where I can follow their progress? If you say "standard" I assume there is an issue on dev.gajim.org?

There is an issue on our tracker, but it's currently down, so I can't link that. A first standard for server side spaces has been published here, though it covers a different use case https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0503.html

The use cases overlap though, right? Like in my case, it sounds like XEP-0503 would be exactly what I want. It would just additionally need support in Gajim of course. It sounds to me like the implementation just comes from different directions: XEP-0503 putting it into XMPP first and hoping for clients to implement it later. And Gajim already having workspaces in the UI and now moving closer towards the server side.

To be fair, maybe I should just wait till dev.gajim.org comes back up and see how many of my questions have already been answered there. 😅

a server space is managing membership of some groupchats together

the user cannot influence this at all, he can be invited to a space, and find there a few groupchats, thats it

Gajims workspaces are a way for the user to organize his chats, not only groupchats, all chats, and allows the user to organize them however they see fit, per account, per topic, per whatever.

so 2 completely different use cases, one is local client feature for a user to organize chats, the other is grouping a few groupchats on a server and make administration easier

not sure how we will implement the server spaces in the UI, but it probably will not be, click the workspace and see all groupchats in the chatlist

Would be cool if they weren't completely different. If you look at Element for example, direct messages are also organized in Spaces. But in Element, all of this is automatic. Having the option to have a Space also be a workspace where you can add and remove whatever you please without modifying the server side, that would be really cool.

> not sure how we will implement the server spaces in the UI, but it probably will not be, click the workspace and see all groupchats in the chatlist Why not? I mean it would probably make sense to need to join the individual channels first, but they could be displayed there, at the bottom, greyed out, with an option to hide them completely. ↺

yeah, could be

we could have a similar gui to element in that case

i dont think people will ever be in a space

makes less sense for me

As someone coming from Discord and Matrix (Element), having not all the chats show up in the chat list by default seems like a missed opportunity. It would make for a more customized experience of course, but personally, I would much rather click the button and immediately have access to everything, instead of needing to search for each channel individually. It would also make people miss when new channels get added (which is an issue that Element also suffers from, since the channels you didn't join yet are only displayed when opening the Space itself, rather than a chat inside of the Space).

yes makes sense, its just much work, because lots needs to be different when its a space

you need a way to leave a chat without removing the chat from the list, for example

you need to prevent that chats get added to that space localy, because its server managed

but definitly realistic things to do

> i dont think people will ever be in a space I also found it weird, but it is probably a useful feature if you do a lot of direct messaging. The way it works in Element: It just puts every direct message you have with someone you share a Space with *also* in the Space. So if I chat to my work colleagues, they are displayed in my direct messages tab, in the work Space, and in any other Space we share. Not saying that this is a good way to do it. I don't have enough direct messages to profit from something like this. For me it is just convenient to have my work colleagues show up in the same tab as my work channels. ↺

sounds messy

if i look at MS Teams, we have "Teams" which is essentially a space

and we have 2000 of this spaces within the same company, and im joined like 100

if i receive a message from a coworker, would it then show a unread message in 20 spaces?

and also just because i talk to a coworker, does not mean it has anything to do with that space

so it can make sense to put him there, but most of the time it proably dont

> you need to prevent that chats get added to that space localy, because its server managed For now, maybe just don't add support for editing a Space. Initially, Spaces will probably only be used by turbo nerd admins who want to move their community from Discord or Matrix to XMPP. They don't need it to be as polished as possible to edit the Space. They need it to be comfortable for the average community member. But yeah, it does sound like a lot of work, since Gajim would need to get two similar systems working together. Personally, I would mind if workspaces and Spaces share the same tab bar on the left, but stay separate things for now. That could be a nice in-between while things are still figured out. ↺

> if i receive a message from a coworker, would it then show a unread message in 20 spaces? I believe the way it works in Element is that if you open the Space, it will indeed be shown there. But there is no red ping on the Space's tab; It only shows on the direct messages tab. ↺

Gajim's current way of organizing this is certainly nicer for me, than what Element is doing.

But yeah, very cool to see that this kind of stuff is being worked on. It's an amazing feature for communities. Currently, our community is a Matrix Space that is bridged to Discord, but there is quite some problems there. Moderation tools on Matrix are extremely lacking; You cannot even ban people from an entire Space without running your own bot to do that. The server software is mega heavy. Joining channels and getting up-to-date after not having your client on for a while is slow (which might be fixed by sliding sync soon™). And presence (online status) is disabled on many big servers, so you cannot even see if your friends are online.

yes the administration features are the ones that are hardest to spec because they need to be thought trough

its not just grouping some chats

On Matrix it's just quite hard not be salty about the missing moderation tools. They have Spaces for 4 years now. They could have at least added a button to Element which just does what the bot does and sends a ban command to every channel in the Space. As a Matrix server admin, I also feel quite vulnerable with not being able to ban people from my server. Like, if someone has an account on the server, I can ban that of course. But I cannot ban someone from matrix.org for example from interacting with my home server. I mean, this is an issue for as long as Matrix exists. You could argue that it isn't a problem until it becomes a problem, but they literally have child porn being posted in the big channels like Synapse Admins. So practically every server administrator is being made painfully aware of the issue.

yeah for any community with a certain size the moderation tools are a must

in xmpp we never had problems with banning people from servers or chats, but for example something like moderating a message is also relatively new feature

I have no idea how it works in XMPP to be honest. I am assuming that moderation is more figured out here, but because of how old XMPP is.

beeing old does not help you, because the problems that chat services have, are problems that we have since few years only not since decades

nobody thought of extensive moderation tools, until people became crazy

Yeah, I guess I get what you mean. I saw someone complain on the Fediverse that Matrix doesn't have *auto-moderation* tools, and how that is completely unacceptable. To be honest, I am quite impressed that Discord has tools for automatically moderating images, which work reasonably well.

To be honest, the software that my colleagues and I are working on is in a similar state as Matrix in terms of moderation. If people start to go crazy, we will have to lock things down quite a lot. We don't even have proper federation yet, but things still feel quite vulnerable.

Hi! Is gitlab down? Wanted to check if an issue was made or if not make it, that since the gtk4 port (which is otherwise very nice) some theming issues appeared, both this subject popup and when someone replies looks pretty bad

morsmortium: yes, it's down at the moment, we're working on it

morsmortium: check your gtk4 theme and reset it to adwaita. Then you'll see whether it's a theme issue or something else

It looks like many gtk4 themes are broken

> It looks like many gtk4 themes are broken With default theme its alright. I am sure kde breeze is alright, its just that replies set this very bright background and dont set a text color, so it becomes light on light. For the subject both are set, but it still is very bight compared to everything else ↺

Can you share a screenshot?

Sure, wait a sec

https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/39dcf06f419597d53db777fb5fb1094edaeeb775/iLzK9dXA4kbUH0zFh2xmmjOYrX5DM6mEDZKnmnez/Screenshot_20250405_155354.png

https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/39dcf06f419597d53db777fb5fb1094edaeeb775/yI81WHn89mL6YyfneI8wOvBtEu7AP50f24oqIeya/Screenshot_20250405_155331.png

works for me on darktheme, so its not a general gajim issue

https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/RSw06v36HE1Vbh98/1a79b13c-79aa-4033-bdde-df0d80e920a1.png

i dont get though, why it would draw the "Subject" text in a different color then the text afterwards

> works for me on darktheme, so its not a general gajim issue It was set to disabled somehow ↺

so it does work now for you?

> so it does work now for you? Yes, false alarm ↺

Also would be cool if the tray icon could have a monochrome version, but thats a different topic, which i also would check the issues for. I see the arch package has a symbolic icon, which would be perfect, if recolored

thats not possible, because we show the current state

and there are more states than 2 ✏

Arent those overlayed on the icon?

not sure what you mean, the tray shows a icon

there is no overlay over the icon

Yes, the app icon and on that an envelope for me, currently

https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/39dcf06f419597d53db777fb5fb1094edaeeb775/63GjbSb8den2SFmRtThbSEkUvq0WPY30OE6YAb6E/f9503c3f-dd12-4869-8688-1f23958f6c3d.png

Looks like the envelope icon is overlayed on top of the regular icon

no, its just a icon

but thats not what i mean

thats the new message icon, of course this could be monochrom

but the icon can have 4 colors

indicating if you are away, dnd, offline

I see

but you are free to exchange all the icons, if its important for you

https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/39dcf06f419597d53db777fb5fb1094edaeeb775/cCvmHjvkZToF8CWfjvjbxzXZcRMP4vDEmePuPTrw/f0f1c195-0fa9-46ae-8aa3-ab6206b34230.png

The colored monochrome emojies deal with it this way

> but you are free to exchange all the icons, if its important for you If i wanted to work on it, i would rather make a pr as an optional thing, i dont like hacking around my own system packages ↺

i see no compelling reason to do this

https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/39dcf06f419597d53db777fb5fb1094edaeeb775/PYGTNM3uIBmvlhdI0ZSJdzbTc84FdDkdxau0T2ia/c7c52b28-9256-4884-9f65-47d537454dbc.png

> i see no compelling reason to do this Just how it looks ↺

lovetox

morsmortium, the icon needs to be useful and not primarily fit in with your other icons

if you can create icons who have the same usability as our current ones, be my guest and create a PR

Alright, thanks!

Hi. Does anyone know why gajim can refuse to load message history older than a day or two in some MUCs?

Conversations loads older history just fine in those

we dont support that, if its your first join

first join is only 24 hours

alexkurisu, that's a default setting in Gajim to load up to 1 day in MUCs you can change that in MUC setting or globally by going to Preferences Chats Group Chats Default Sync Threshold

r00tobo, i already have it set to "No threshold"…

I even checked per-MUC settings - "No threshold" everywhere

alexkurisu, if it is in some MUCs that depends on how many lines are stored on the MUC server too ?

but if in conversations you got older msgs fine then hmm

> alexkurisu, if it is in some MUCs that depends on how many lines are stored on the MUC server too ? If that was the case then Conversations also wouldn't load them ↺

turning on debugging will help figuring out the cause i am sure

> turning on debugging will help figuring out the cause i am sure Nothing suspicious there… ↺

you cannot get more than 24 hours before first join

the threshold you set, affects only your next join

and can never pull data before your first join ✏

lovetox: then why it works in Conversations? It pulls history from way before i joined the MUC

because its a different application?

im not say its technically impossible to write a software that does this

i try to tell you what Gajim does.

> https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/39dcf06f419597d53db777fb5fb1094edaeeb775/63GjbSb8den2SFmRtThbSEkUvq0WPY30OE6YAb6E/f9503c3f-dd12-4869-8688-1f23958f6c3d.png Well I was coming to ask "Does Gajim not have anymore unread icon tray?", because I don't see it anymore when I have unread messages since 2.0 and lot of people issued some stuff about tray icon :/ ↺

Gajim 2.0 offers a tray icon via DBus. Your desktop environment needs to support that

Yeah, I've got the tray icon (I already said here that I needed an extension in Debian 12/Gnome 43 for it to show (which I always had and I had 2 Gajim icons before 2.0 :D)), and it works for right-click actions and displaying status (red/orange) and when it's disconnected (little planet icon). But not unread message with this little envelop anymore?

> Gajim 2.0 offers a tray icon via DBus. Your desktop environment needs to support that How does this work on windows? I ↺

geez computers are so unsolvable

> Yeah, I've got the tray icon (I already said here that I needed an extension in Debian 12/Gnome 43 for it to show (which I always had and I had 2 Gajim icons before 2.0 :D)), and it works for right-click actions and displaying status (red/orange) and when it's disconnected (little planet icon). But not unread message with this little envelop anymore? I have gajim 2.0.4 ↺

> Yeah, I've got the tray icon (I already said here that I needed an extension in Debian 12/Gnome 43 for it to show (which I always had and I had 2 Gajim icons before 2.0 :D)), and it works for right-click actions and displaying status (red/orange) and when it's disconnected (little planet icon). But not unread message with this little envelop anymore? Ohh my bad! Yes I do but the envelop is so tiny compared to previous icon, I didn't notice it! sorry for the noise ↺