Gajim - 2024-07-22

you can also run gajim 1.9.2 in debian stable but running it in a python venv environment. In the virtual environment at the root of the 1.9.2 extracted stable sourcce you can pip install . <--- with the period. The command is the readme and it should install gajim and any needed dependencies. ✏

you can also run gajim 1.9.2 in debian stable but running it in a python venv environment. In the virtual environment and at the root of the 1.9.2 extracted stable sourcce you can pip install . <--- with the period. The command is the readme and it should install gajim and any needed dependencies. ✏

you can also run gajim 1.9.2 in debian stable but running it in a python venv environment. In the virtual environment and at the root of the 1.9.2 extracted stable sourcce you can pip install . <--- with the period. The command is in the readme and it should install gajim and any needed dependencies. ✏

>> likely the binary port hasn't been shipped yet then :) > Unlikely. The commit above was 37 hours ago very likely ↺

it takes time for stuff to propagate

a release version won't get things quickly

a stable version will get things faster

current will get things the fastest

or it could be the mirror I'm using hasn't synced yet

i can see the avatar of this muc

mebs Maybe a bug in Gajim 1.9.2 then. I only upgraded today.

in vonversations and gajim 1.8.4 it is still visible

debacle, I'm on 1.9.2 and I see the channel's avatar

But it could be cached from the past

debacle: I couldn't see it neither yesterday with 1.9.2 iirc

Now I wonder, if *you* have avatars? I see mine and meson, but no avatar of mebs and lissine. Correct or bug?

Different question: I would like to observe two or three MUCs at the same time, side by side. I'm interested in following the discussions without necessarily participating. What would be the way to go? Starting Gajim twice or thrice? Do I need to change something in the desktop file for that?

I don't have one set

but do you?

I do. Cat with glasses.

debacle: I'm not in Gajim right now, but I've also observed some avatars missing for some users in Gajim, and for others in Dino and again for others in C lol ✏

In C there's no avatar for you

there's a privacy setting in Gajim that by default, prevents non contacts from seeing your avatar.

In Dino I see a lot of problems with avatars, i.e. I don't see a lot of avatars :-) meson

> there's a privacy setting in Gajim that by default, prevents non contacts from seeing your avatar. It affects your account as a whole ↺

i.e. even if your Gajim is closed and you're using another client, non contacts won't see your avatar

lissine Probably a setting for a PEP node, public vs. roster vs. whitelist or something. ✏

yes IIRC

lissine: where is this setting? I cannot find it

Only in the pep node settings? I doubt a normal user (quasi all) changes that

meson, click on your account's avatar in the bottom left -> three dots next to your address -> profile -> edit -> hand icon (privacy)

Yeah, but for me it says nothing about any avatar

Whay should I exactly look for?

https://share.ellini.org:5281/file_share/MGpLUDMtZ4cFhDWWd82wUGw1/privacy_setting.png

meson, your avatar is already visible, so you have no problems. But if the toggle in front of `Picture and Name` was set to `Contacts` (which is the default), your avatar wouldn't be visible in public channels

I see, sorry I was in the wrong settings dialog. There are clearly too many places imo.

There are more account privacy options in the account settings

By the way lovetox, wouldn't it make sense to also have these options under the account's privacy settings? (Accounts -> Manage Accounts... -> select account -> Privacy)

+1, they are a bit scattered

I just restarted Gajim and the channel's avatar is gone (other channels are fine)

😅️

lissine I find a huge privacy menu in my account settings. A lot of options, but nothing related to avatar, it seems.

> meson, click on your account's avatar in the bottom left -> three dots next to your address -> profile -> edit -> hand icon (privacy) debacle ^ ↺

> https://share.ellini.org:5281/file_share/MGpLUDMtZ4cFhDWWd82wUGw1/privacy_setting.png ↺

lissine Thanks, found it! Wow, that's an amazing way of hiding a configuration, if you want to be absolutely sure, that nobody would mess with it!

Never ever would I click on that "hand" icon. That really should go to the other account privacy settings, please!

debacle, your avatar is visible now 🎉️

Indeed, but had to reconnect first in C ...

Same in Gajim. You need to reconnect

if you guys are interesting in digging, here's what I know about xmpp avatars: - the modern way is XEP-0084, which is what gajim uses - in MUCs that does not work, so the not-so-modern way is XEP-0153 which all clients implement - we rely on server-side xep-0398 support to handle xep-0084 to xep-0153 and thus, having avatars in MUCs

leaving and rejoining the MUC may be necessary after a privacy setting change because prosody might not send an updated presence right away after you set your PEP avatar node to public when it was private

> lissine Thanks, found it! Wow, that's an amazing way of hiding a configuration, if you want to be absolutely sure, that nobody would mess with it! why? the place where you set your avatar is for me the most natural place to say if that avatar should be private or not ↺

also, avatars are supposed to always be PNGs, but not all clients care that much, although some do ✏

lovetox, It can stay there. But it should also be possible to edit those options from the account's privacy settings

yeah but thats not easily possible

why not?

as these are server settings, requests must be made, errors must be displayed

we have no GUI for that in the account settings, and it would be the only setting that would need this there

this is not a setting in the sense that its something stored in Gajim

we request the current state from the server and set it on the server on request

wouldn't it be possible to have an entry that's a hyperlink to the profile settings window? i.e. when you click it the profile settings window would be opened

preferably with the privacy hand-icon button already clicked

> why? the place where you set your avatar is for me the most natural place to say if that avatar should be private or not Somehow I did not imagine that setting there. I thought about "privacy", so I looked at my account privacy settings, didn't find it there and suspected, that there are no settings related to that. ↺

Anyway, now I know :-)

Is this bug already mentioned by the way (right side button cut-off)? https://i.imgur.com/TZkJF7J.png ✏

epic: that's not a bug. That's simply smaller than gajim's minimum width

> /me wonders if this MUC had an avatar image? Now it doesn't. Probably false memories in my brain... for me, one account has it, the other does not. for the one that doesn't, it did, then didn't, then did, then didn't. maybe there is a problem with multiple accounts conflicting? a bug either way. ↺

> also, avatars are supposed to always be PNGs, but not all clients care that much, although some do wait, what? according to spec? ↺

> debacle, your avatar is visible now 🎉️ not for me. been meaning to report on it some time but gajim has avatar problems ↺

> not for me fjklp: try closing gajim and reopening it

> > not for me > fjklp: try closing gajim and reopening it it doesn't change it ↺

i have that too

but weirdly only for the Gajim chat

based on the fact that I have authentication problems only with gajim.org, file upload problems only with gajim.org, and avatar problems with gajim.org, who knows what's going on there

I wonder if there is a database inaccessible or something

no a rejoin fixes it

it seems like a Gajim caching problem

I've mostly seen this for gajim.org as well. But might be only a feeling ;)

it seems like a caching bug

i cannot constantly reproduce it

avatar was not there for some restarts, suddenly its there and does not go away

Anyway in MUCs you dont see user avatars because of privacy settings, or because the servers of these users dont support the right avatar conversion xeps

for example if a user publishes his avatar to PEP, server needs to convert it to vcard-temp on request

if the server does not have that mod installed, then there will be no avatar seen

> Anyway in MUCs you dont see user avatars because of privacy settings, or because the servers of these users dont support the right avatar conversion xeps not always true ↺

A few days ago I created an account and joined this chat with gajim. 12 hours in and I still could not see the avatar of lovetox or cal0pteryx, just for example.

I don't know what the max time to display should be, but I'd arbitrarily say even taking 1 minutes is too much.

why would that be too much?

is the avatar in any way important for you while chatting

new account if you join many chats, and we need to request thousands of avatars

yes this could take hours

i think we request an avatar only every 2 seconds

> is the avatar in any way important for you while chatting Only in xmpp would it be considered acceptable to take more than a couple seconds ↺

I guess you are trying to be polite and not hammer servers. It's a tough call.

Though, I also wonder how well gajim could handle requesting all avatars immediately upon join. ✏

I guess these are downsides of federation and small servers

One interesting solution would be for servers to advertise maximum query rate and the client gets this upon connecting and follows that. Or, the client has the ability to send a special request for all avatars and the server sends them at the rate that it's set to.

The download all idea seems best as it could scale according to available resources.

this has nothing to do with servers, there is only one connection to the server and we need to prioritize what we download first

and i think its more important to join a MUC and download messages, then downloading hundreds of avatars

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master fix: SearchView: Fix search when changing scope for the same search string - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/ecc806318e59876e1fb0d7b11614a5052835bbb0

I guess multiple connections isn't even an option due to being single-threaded process

you cannot download avatars without beeing joined to the muc

this would be weird if people see you twice joined in every muc

wait, why not delay avatar download until after mam finishes sync, then download all at once? And if we think that might risk making gajim unresponsive, do it in bursts? One avatar per every two seconds seems insanely slow. I see no reason not to attempt to download them as fast as possible, so long as gajim remains responsive.

i didnt say thats its an unsolveable problem

just that its not worth it to solve it

you know other people dont create new accounts, delete accounts, and install new gajim instances somewhere every day like you do

most of us have a single account for years

I guess that's ultimately your call to make for your own time. I just assumed it could greatly improved with relatively little change.

setup on a machine for years

true

its especially funny, that you are on a mostly unmaintained server, where yeah nobody will see your avatar :D

actually, I use other servers too. and I have no avatar in use on this account :)

I just never tried setting one for this account

maybe it works, i think gajim.org is running a recent prosody :)

is it working?

it is for me

0.12.3, not very up to date :)

I sent a message to asterix to try to get log output for my failed auth thing. Who knows if I'll get a response :) ✏

I'm not seeing my avatar in conversations

I'm very much in favor of closing down the gajim.org XMPP service (excluding this very group chat)

it might be a good idea. However, I'd really like to figure out if this auth problem is purely an implementation problem or some edge case bug in prosody or gajim

hey everyone, does gajim xmpp email contact to gmail,yahoo and protonmail??? will that work? is that possible?

are you asking if you can send a email with an xmpp account? no

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master imprv: DebugConsole: Dynamically add stanza presets and add XEP-0092 query - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/b7d39c39097f9e3df6b3146e92c47ce8f1887769

^ for your convenience

> ^ for your convenience whose? ↺

People wanting to do Software Version queries

ah

there's no way to use gajim's debug console to send authentication messages, since I have to use a logged in account to send, right?

fjklp: you can try using nbxmpp-client. I think there is an auth selector

thanks, will check it out

> I'm not seeing my avatar in conversations fjklp: it seems you missed the conversation earlier. Read the chat log about 8 hours ago. TL;DR By default Gajim doesn't show your avatar to non-contact. You can change this behaviour using a privacy setting in the screen where you publish avatars

Oh never mind, you should always see your own avatar

what is the setting path?

Assuming you're using the same account in Conversations

oh

changed it

man, gajim settings are difficult

> wouldn't it be possible to have an entry that's a hyperlink to the profile settings window? i.e. when you click it the profile settings window would be opened For this specific settings, if the devs don't like my suggestion ^, I think I should a wiki FAQ entry about it 😅️ ↺

The developers don't want to change the default, because it's possible that someone uses the same account for personal conversations and for public channels. And privacy by default is better. But for us who have a separate account for public channels, the setting should be easier to access, or at least documented in the wiki.

> wouldn't it be possible to have an entry that's a hyperlink to the profile settings window? i.e. when you click it the profile settings window would be opened Re: my suggestion ^, it seems there are already hyperlinks in Gajim. For example: if you click your account's avatar on the bottom left, there's a gear icon next to your account's name that when clicked, opens the `Manage Accounts...` window and immediately selects the relevant account ↺

there are a number of things I keep thinking of to add to the wiki. What's the process? is there one? merge requests?

no you simply ask for access

alright, may I have access?