Gajim - 2024-07-06

why when I type a "note to self" it says "No devices found to encrypt this message to. Querying for devices now…"

gajim does not encrypt messages to itself and I guess you have omemo enabled

> gajim does not encrypt messages to itself and I guess you have omemo enabled Okay, so does that mean the "notes to myself" will not be encrypted? ↺

Kojin: yes, I think it is not possible to encrypt these. I don't know if there is any technical reason why gajim won't encrypt to itself but it won't.

> Kojin: yes, I think it is not possible to encrypt these. I don't know if there is any technical reason why gajim won't encrypt to itself but it won't. Good to know, thanks for helping! Before I go, is there any way to use this on a mobile phone such as Apple or Android? ↺

You mean the note to self thing?

> You mean the note to self thing? Gajim ↺

I think it's possible to get it to work on Mac os, not android. There are mobile apps that work on ios and android. Conversations and Cheogram are popular android options.

also, not ios

> I think it's possible to get it to work on Mac os, not android. There are mobile apps that work on ios and android. Conversations and Cheogram are popular android options. You been a great help! One last question, I created a group and when I turn on my encryption option, and type a test message it says "To send an encrypted message, you have to decide whether to trust the device of your contact." and will not display the message. and gives me a button for "mange trust" but I don't see any where to add anything. ↺

Hmm, I thought the default setting was to 'trust by default', so I'm not sure why you are seeing this.

> Hmm, I thought the default setting was to 'trust by default', so I'm not sure why you are seeing this. Yeah, that's what I thought too because the setting is on. ↺

ok

I haven't change anything. ✏

in Accounts>Manage Accounts>your account>Encryption, is Blind Trust on?

> in Accounts>Manage Accounts>your account>Encryption, is Blind Trust on? Yeah. ↺

If you click the shield icon at bottom right in that chat (this might be the same "manage trust" window), you should see a section that says 'Devices connected with "the name of this chat"'. In the list, each device has a shield icon at left. Are they all half shields?

let me check

> If you click the shield icon at bottom right in that chat (this might be the same "manage trust" window), you should see a section that says 'Devices connected with "the name of this chat"'. In the list, each device has a shield icon at left. Are they all half shields? Nope the box is empty ↺

Nothing shows up

are there other people present in this chat? Is this a 1 to 1 chat or a group chat?

> are there other people present in this chat? Is this a 1 to 1 chat or a group chat? I created it just for testing it out before inviting friends. ↺

So no one is inside the group but me.

ah, I think that is the reason

I get that it seems like you should be able to send the message. This is the same problem as with the 'note to self'

I think I have experienced the same confusion before

I'd actually like to know why gajim cannot encrypt messages to self too

Gajim requires a chat partner to send encrypted messages to, otherwise it will not send a message when omemo is enabled

lol, yeah it was confusing me for sure.

Makes since now that I know how the encryption functions based on our discussion.

One option, with a group chat, is to create a second account and have it join too. Then you can test alone.

I just figured when encryption is enabled that means it hides the info from the main server.

Same with 1 to 1 messages, if you needed to test that

> One option, with a group chat, is to create a second account and have it join too. Then you can test alone. Yeah, I can do that. ↺

Guess its setup in a different way then what I am use to.

Still enjoy this layout a lot because its more modern than most encrypted chats.

So far a big fan of Gajim

Nice! I'm glad you are liking it.

> also, not ios If you're talking about Omemo-encrypting note to self messages, it works on Monal (ios) and on Conversations (android)

You been a big help, thank you for taking the time and helping me, I do appreciate it.

Lot's of work is getting done on it lately, so gajim should keep improving

no problem Kojin

> > also, not ios > If you're talking about Omemo-encrypting note to self messages, it works on Monal (ios) and on Conversations (android) Interesting, good to know ↺

It should work on Gajim as well. Doesn't it?

I don't think so

I'm going to head out, thank you again.

fjklp: It works for me with Gajim 1.9.1 using a prosody 0.12.4 self-hosted server. You likely have a problem with your setup

huh, I thought either lovetox or calopteryx told me it's not possible

actually, it is working for me now

AFAIK it's just like sending an Omemo message to anyone else, but you encrypt using your own devices' keys

yeah, I thought it should be possible

it is, you simply need a second device

there is no encrypting to self in OMEMO

you can only encrypt to other devices, be it your own or the ones of a contact

then how is it possible that I'm able to use the Note to myself chat with omemo enabled. I have the xml console opened and it is encrypted.

I also see no reason why we wouldn't be able to encrypt to our own key

fjklp: If I'm understanding correctly: When you send an Omemo message to someone else, it's not encrypted for the decice that sent it, because it's already decrypted there

that makes sense, but I have to wonder _who_ the message is being encrypted to in the note to myself

In which scenario? Only one client or multiple?

note to myself

It's encrypted to your other clients

ah shit, there is another client

After clearing my the device list for the account, trying to use omemo in note to myself gives the message "No devices found to encrypt this message to. Querying for devices now…". Now it makes sense.

I still don't know why we can't encrypt to our own key.

I did the following: Created a new accoung using Conversations Sent a couple of omemo messages to myself on it Logged in to the account on a Conversationa fork In 'note to myself' it says 'Message was not encrypted for this device'

> I still don't know why we can't encrypt to our own key. Apparently, it works on Conversations.

lovetox: comments on the above?

no idea what they do

I guess I need to just study XEP 0384

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master feat: Optionally unregister from group chats on close - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/149cabde337f37392be40cebd2849f65bb77d0a5

Morning lovetox, I see you reverted the commit for the system proxies. Did you find something new?

yeah this does not work like i imagined it to

it does not get the system proxies

i opened a glib issue, this seems like a bug, i will fix it one way or another in the next version

Thank you. Let me know when I can test something.

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: Notifications: Fix icon path for Windows toast notifications - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/b638b7b8a7634dd78a46aaa10f2adc106f80e91c

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: Improve group chat leaving dialog text - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/8ffbd5e309373104cf5deac100efb2dcd41ada69

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master fix: SynchronizeAccounts: Fix dialog for starting with unavailable account - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/f3fc0cdf0b9739141e27e86520b7809c3b626ea0

wurstsalat pushed 2 commits to branch gajim/master imprv: MessageRowActons: Hide quick reactions on narrow screens - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/621d0024653d0ca6225e0513f1608dc356e060de cfix: MessageRowActions: Increase offset for merged rows - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/59b8a08303c12d344d022887d299812645b66171

zak, we will go with a option in the proxy settings that will be named something like "ignore system proxies"

it seems Windows has only one proxy setting, and its expected that application determine itself if they want to use it or not

while on gnome you can configure multiple proxies per protocol

Okay. Cannot you get a list of the proxys and then filter any invalid ones?

Something like `if proxy.startswith("http"): ignore...` ✏

Just a thought

no because nobody is forced to add the protocol in front

Hello again! I have something new to ask today. Is there anyway to make subgroups from one main group chat kinda like additional chat rooms so you don't have to create new groups with new invites for each topic?

Kojin: you mean something like Matrix Spaces?

> Kojin: you mean something like Matrix Spaces? More like rooms or channels, otherwise you have to create new group chats for each topic you might want to setup. ↺

My guess, that maybe its not a feature yet?

Or more like Threads?

> Or more like Threads? or threads would be something helpful too 😉 ↺

Still like Gajim as is but those improvements would set it over the top of many other chatting tools.

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master fix: GroupchatRoster: Fix menu not pointing to cursor - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/3f62e294f67d3044dfdc9696f3d6b44221c78b62

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master change: Remove gajim-url theme parameter - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/fd0fdd2236a448bdda71d135f30b5b295df04353

Kojin: and how would that work, exactly?

> Kojin: and how would that work, exactly? I was suggesting a feature to have work space where you can invite people to that will have access to whatever you create inside the workspace allowing you to have multiple chats in 1 setting without having to invite your friends/family/members to each group chat you create. ✏ ↺

> Kojin: and how would that work, exactly? I was suggesting a feature to have work space where you can invite people to that and the people will have access to whatever you create inside the workspace allowing you to have multiple chats in 1 setting without having to invite your friends/family/members to each group chat you create. ✏ ↺

So in short, basically allow inviting to work spaces which grants permissions to all chats inside the work space.

Kojin: I don't know if you saw the followup conversation earlier about encrypting messages to yourself. The one exception where you _can_ encrypt messages to yourself is if you have multiple clients in a chat, both using the same account. Then, because of the other device, you can send omemo messages in a chat where only you are there with one account.

An example might be that you have Gajim and Conversations both using the same xmpp account

> Kojin: I don't know if you saw the followup conversation earlier about encrypting messages to yourself. The one exception where you _can_ encrypt messages to yourself is if you have multiple clients in a chat, both using the same account. Then, because of the other device, you can send omemo messages in a chat where only you are there with one account. Yeah, I did. It made sense to me that was what was going on but creating the second account and testing worked. ✏ ↺

That works too :) Then you don't need a second client.

> That works too :) Then you don't need a second client. It wasn't a big deal to me, I was just trying to test things out. I have a good feel for things now. ↺

Just wish there was a better way to setup a work space where others could chat in all the chats without inviting to each one by one.

Kojin: regarding spaces, see https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/11658

There are ideas, and there are efforts to create a standard

> There are ideas, and there are efforts to create a standard Yeah, I figured as much. Its pretty common with other chat apps but those are bloaty and data hungry lol. ↺

I also understand that features come at the cost of the developers time and I appreciate that.

cal0pteryx: didn't you say that the bug where input text becomes dark is a gtk bug? Mind giving me the link to that issue if there is one?

> Kojin: regarding spaces, see https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/11658 Yeah, this is pretty much what I was talking about 👍 ↺