Gajim - 2024-06-21

til

Just checked Gajim in Orca, it's awful generally. It's not even trivial to escape the input field with the keyboard, as Tab is overridden. I invoked Ctrl+F so the focused switched to the search field and I could navigate other UI elements lol.

Almost none of custom widgets are spoken out. Even the calendar items. So it suffers from the same illness as TelegramDesktop, which uses QtGui which provides a11y support for free but relies so much on custom widgets that a11y is totally broken and visually impaired users have to use Pidgin+tdlib-purple instead.

there was a guy in here working on making gajim work for a blind person awhile back

Installed on Debian stable, Gajim v1.7.3, looks like normal behavior is to automatically download files to `~/.local/share/gajim/downloads`, and it doesn't get automatically cleaned up . So If I have installed Gajim for someone else, who doesn't pay attention to their disk space, I suppose I have to write a bash script to delete all files in that directory after a pre-agreed-upon period of time (as that's the desired result). Or is there a setting or something else I'm just not seeing? Regular messages appear to honor the setting for `Accounts > Modify Account > Privacy > Keep Chat History` but downloaded files aren't affected.

Zach: I'm not too familiar with the options here. I don't think there is any option built into gajim to cleanup these files. But you can not create them in the first place.

are they wanting to have file previews within gajim?

For example, I think you can in Preferences>Chats>File Preview: turn File Preview off, then change Left Click Action to open in browser. I think this would never download the files.

Yes, they would need to view PDFs, images, but preferably not have the data stick around forever, as they don't really bother to secure their devices. (Elderly). I will experiment with File Preview as you say. If that's what it does, that will be great!

Thank you

It would also be pretty trivial to make a script using `find` to delete files older than whatever on whatever schedule

I'm just assuming linux, maybe I shouldn't :)

> It would also be pretty trivial to make a script using `find` to delete files older than whatever on whatever schedule Yes, I'm quite inclined to go this route. One is Linux, the other is Windows, which is both a tragedy, and a temporary affair hopefully. 😬️

`.AppData\something\something`

heh, I wouldn't even know. I haven't touched windows in over a decade.

it looks like open in browser for left click action won't work if the given chat is encrypted with omemo

looks like this command would do it

`find /path -type f ! -newermt `date --iso-8601=m -d "30 days ago"` -exec rm -rf "{}" +;` ✏

find is awesome

`find` has the insanest syntax among UNIX utils probably.

Sysadmin's nightmare.

it still trips me up sometimes :)

it really has to be one of the most powerful and versatile commands

With great power greats responsibility.

A command like that can be really destructive if not tested beforehand.

`find` is destructive?

true, maybe I shouldn't post it. Not sure. Don't run commands you don't understand.

anyone might fail to see the danger in it sometimes, so I agree

amogus: yes, when used for removal.

And for executing external commands in general.

I've almost deleted all my files with it before

i remember deleting all my files by accidentially setting a full path instead of just in the current working directory 💀

lovetox: feel free to delete my `find` command example above if you care to

i used a live usb to clone the partition and i can use recovery tools on it later, they looked promising during tests but i needed more space :(

btw is there a better way to dry run it other than just replacing rm with ls

> i remember deleting all my files by accidentially setting a full path instead of just in the current working directory 💀 I've done `rm *` before, in the wrong directory ↺

yeah, fun

I'm not embarassed to say that I open a GUI file browser when deleting stuff

> I'm not embarassed to say that I open a GUI file browser when deleting stuff I have set `alias mv='mv --interactive'` and `alias rm='rm --interactive'`. I'm surprised these aren't defaults. ✏ ↺

fjklp: aliases won't help for scripts. And they're not defaults 'cause it's not windoze lol.

aquatarkus: I'm afraid of any automated file management/sync tools in general, and have been doing all file management stuff manually and precisely with thorough checks for many years. Though when I got richer, and got more media for backups than the laptop's internal HDD and the home PC's internal HDD, as well as more phones, I got tired of that. Now I can only hope that if some file gets modified/corrupted without my notice, I'll still be able to retrieve it from some of multiple copies. Or not. ✏

automated backups/snapshots are good though :]

as for syncing, yeah

I hope the situation improved when I switched from totally messy rsync without `--del` (I still have gigabytes of garbage in my system because I migrated it from such a backup, BTW), to borg with deduplicated snapshots. Though borg is too of blackbox, and I'm afraid that it would involve a lot of complications if the disk with backups gets partially damaged or if I'll have to restore the data from it on some system with no borg installed and which it would be complicated to install to, like a LiveUSB.

Also, it's unnecessary to backup all the data, each time it's a few gigabytes of browser cache and other crap.

that is true

it's smart to curate ~/ differently

They accumulated even with rsync though, just recently I manually purged a few hundreds of megabytes of cache files from TelegramDesktop folder which it didn't even recognize or manage.

> They accumulated even with rsync though, just recently I manually purged a few hundreds of megabytes of cache files from TelegramDesktop folder which it didn't even recognize or manage. I periodically check for that, and for common offenders I just rm every time I turn on the computer ↺

``` exec-once = rm -rf ~/.cache/BraveSoftware & exec-once = rm -rf ~/.cache/chromium & exec-once = rm -rf ~/.cache/torbrowser & ```

nobody's got diskspace for gigabytes of cache

BTW: ``` @bq:07:48:08:/tmp/dl$ ls -1 ~/.local/share/gajim/downloads/|wc -l 40176 ``` Accessing it becomes laggy even on my modern laptop with NVMe SSD. I wonder what would happen on my former one, probably it would put the system on knees for a few minutes and I would resort to migrate some of it and suffer with watching old logs lol (now, as I still keep 1.3 with the image plugin, I still can browse logs, say, from 2020 or even 2016 with the history viewer and all images are loaded there from downloads).

aquatarkus: pff, but what if you need to rescue something from the browser cache?

lmao

It gets more complicated nowadays though, as it becomes obfuscated/encrypted. ✏

No reason to laugh, I had visited a small imageboard in the past, whose maintainer has borked the backups and the files there got damaged partially, only hashes remained. I was collecting them through my whole disk. Some valuable ones still are lost.

And this board owner also was poisoned by the hype and rewrote the imageboard as an SPA app for no reason, thus breaking indexability and crawlability by search engines.

Which also led to losing half of functionality.

And claimed this rewrite made the board faster than it was before with the Python's GIL bottleneck making multi-threading useless, even though I did not notice any difference on my cellular connection.

Does it remind anything? :P

what imageboard?

Neboard.

never been there

not that I remember of anyway

It's gone for two years already. I had a read-only mirror but also killed it in a depression, now I still have an offline copy but don't see a reason to publish it anymore.

aquatarkus: not surprising, the are hundreds of small imageboards like that.

With 3.5 anons.

yeah

I used to go around looking for small chans

one of the best parts of the internet, probably

aside from obscure chat rooms like on xmpp/irc

I'm heading over to bed rn, good night bodqhrohro

As you say.

lovetox: I wonder if /me messages should be displayed as system ones, isn't that how they were intended to be when they appeared? I suspect they're intended to mimic stage directions in play scripts, if you have ever read them.

There's also unnecessary duplication. In textview-based IMs nick was never duplicated near such messages.

I've been in a few MUCs full of RP lovers, and they use /me a lot.

So it literally looks like a play script.

pedro.ataide: there are many gajim users on Windows. Please keep the swearing to yourself

> meson: > How big are your executables? Here both .exe have 375 kB I cannot believe it, there should be some ≈30 MB .dll aside. ↺

Or 30 MB of tiny dlls hidden in system32 after installation (virtualized one on modern Windows, but whatever).

bodqhrohro: whats your point?

cal0pteryx: on what? Windows build? No big point really; if I'm _really_ interested in that, I should just investigate the build myself lol.

Last time I downloaded Gajim for Windows was in 0.16 times, and even though it didn't work there.

So I used something other, Thunderbird and probably JAJC also.

> Length: 112724847 (108M) [application/x-msdos-program] No questions anymore.

I'm not even going to investigate it :P

Alright then

Interesting insight: https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/1c064c5a-12dc-451b-83cf-6248b9cd92cb

Eh, why you don't have a message collapsing module here? :S

``` for i in $(seq 2011 2024); do echo $i; git log|grep -B 1 "^Date.*$i"|grep Author|sort|uniq -c|sort -nr|head -n 3; done|pbcopy ```

> bodqhrohro: > Eh, why you don't have a message collapsing module here? :S Or you do. ↺

I just see the outgoing message intact.

Even though it's displayed collapsed in another client. Interesting.

Yes that's the way since 1.9

But I think it makes sense that we collapse it in the GUI

We could put every message into a scrolled window

I guess that would be awkward ;D

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

The Spoilers xep comes to my mind. But that's a different use case

One thing that's not so nice about the spoiler XEP is that it's for the full message, not just part of it, eg, I can't do: > The big reveal is that ||Kaizer Soze was under your eyes during the whole movie||. Who would have thought? It can have a title though, but clients not implementing it won't display the title 🙁

A new span for 0393 message styling would be simpler and overall better I think.

> cal0pteryx: > I guess that would be awkward ;D Yeah, like scrolling 4PDA. Not even possible in Opera Mini, BTW (even though it tends to uncollapse such containers). ↺

> nicoco: > One thing that's not so nice about the spoiler XEP is that it's for the full message, not just part of it, eg, I can't do: > > The big reveal is that ||Kaizer Soze was under your eyes during the whole movie||. Who would have thought? > It can have a title though, but clients not implementing it won't display the title 🙁 AFAIR, there existed a plugin back then which autodetected NSFW marks in messages. Or I just suggested it's easy to implement in some chat where such marks were used and clients didn't fetch links automatically yet (but Gajim with the image plugin already did for me), and never implemented actually. ↺

Hm but we already have a 5000 message limit

We could add a line limit to that

nicoco: I do even think now this is a good case when modern clients not retrieving links if they're not wrapped into OOB messages is actually useful. Just send links in non-OOB messages lol.

is voice/video support for windows planned?

Are v1.9.0 deb files for ubuntu jammy 22.04 available? Or a snap?

Skinwalker: flatpak is available

I know... But Ubuntu does not support flatpak.

? Of course it does

What do you mean? That it's not shipped with the system?

Sudo apt install flatpak

Is there also a gui integration?

This page will help with setting up Flatpak correctly: https://flathub.org/setup/Ubuntu

Thanks lovetox and flit. ✏

Hi. Thank you for Gajim 1.9.0. Unfortunately after an update on Windows from 1.8.4 (portable edition), some colleagues are unable to connect to our company XMPP server. The error message is: > Connect Error: g-resolver-error-quark: No DNS record of the requested type for “_xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de” (0) The server is ejabberd 23.01 (debian bookworm). I am assuming it has something to do with a connection through the VPN tunnel (which works fine, 1.8.4 worked fine!) Did something change in this regard in version 1.9.0 ?

We already tried setting the hostname in the account settings, but that did not help.

More logs: ``` 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.stream | (xmpp.company.de) Current address: ServerAddress(domain='xmpp.company.de', service='xmpp-client', host=None, uri=None, protocol=<ConnectionProtocol.TCP: 0>, type=<ConnectionType.START_TLS: 'START TLS'>, proxy=None) 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.stream | (xmpp.company.de) Set state: StreamState.CONNECTING 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.connection | (xmpp.company.de) Set Connection State: TCPState.CONNECTING 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.connection | (xmpp.company.de) Connect Error: g-resolver-error-quark: No DNS record of the requested type for “_xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de” (0) 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.connection | (xmpp.company.de) Set Connection State: TCPState.DISCONNECTED 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.connection | (xmpp.company.de) Signal: connection-failed 2024-06-21T16:14:11 (I) nbxmpp.stream | (xmpp.company.de) Set state: StreamState.DISCONNECTED ```

The bad thing is: After the database migration, a downgrade is probably not possible anymore without losing all history and settings.

> Hi. Thank you for Gajim 1.9.0. > Unfortunately after an update on Windows from 1.8.4 (portable edition), some colleagues are unable to connect to our company XMPP server. The error message is: > > Connect Error: g-resolver-error-quark: No DNS record of the requested type for “_xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de” (0) > > The server is ejabberd 23.01 (debian bookworm). > > I am assuming it has something to do with a connection through the VPN tunnel (which works fine, 1.8.4 worked fine!) > > Did something change in this regard in version 1.9.0 ? Are you able to get a SRV record for that domain on your VPN? ↺

How can I do that?

`dig _xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de SRV +short` (possibly without the .xmpp)

I'm not sure how to do it on Windows, but maybe something like this: https://serverfault.com/a/99485

> `dig _xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de SRV +short` (possibly without the .xmpp) No result from this command. Not even an error. Without .xmpp as well. ↺

I don't have windows here, trying on Linux

Ah, OK. I assumed windows because you mentioned you were using that version of gajim. Try drill? I usually like the error messages more: `drill SRV _xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de`

Yes, the colleagues who updated are using Windows.

With the command `dig SRV _xmpp-client._tcp.xmpp.company.de` I get some results

But on Linux I could connect. I guess I have to try this on a Windows machine connecting through VPN.

But the question remains: What exactly did change between the versions so this does not work anymore?

> This page will help with setting up Flatpak correctly: https://flathub.org/setup/Ubuntu It wanted to install an additional gnome environment. I uninstall Flatpak now.

Are there no plans for native Ubuntu support?

I think it's a matter of requiring sqlalchemy version 2

>> This page will help with setting up Flatpak correctly: https://flathub.org/setup/Ubuntu > It wanted to install an additional gnome environment. I uninstall Flatpak now. Skinwalker: yes, and? Not sure how you think this would work? Of course it needs a specific (in this case: newer) version of libraries your system doesn't provide. ↺

As soon as the latest ubuntu ships with the required version of gajim's dependencies, it works

I friend of mine just told me he could not resolve the SRV record on Windows. So I am assuming that our Ivanti software either has a bug there or because of some setting this record is not exposed through the VPN. If anybody has any more ideas on this, I'd be really happy. Otherwise we probably lose even more people to Teams only soon. 🙁️

zak: you could try to git bisect on Windows

If it's a Gajim issue

> zak: you could try to git bisect on Windows I assume this means a checkout of the code directly? This is too time-consuming I'm afraid. ↺

I guess some library was updated which now handles the connection differently by using the SRV record. At least a confirmation on this would be nice.

Maybe there is a way to revert to the old behaviour somehow.

I think you should also be able to specify the hostname and port directly, and not leave it up to dns SRV records

> I think you should also be able to specify the hostname and port directly, and not leave it up to dns SRV records We tried that, and it did not help. ↺

> I assume this means a checkout of the code directly? Yes, you install msys2, start its mingw64 version, git clone gajim, execute the script to create the dev environment, then git bisect the 7 steps and in between you test. Would assume an hour maybe, especially if everything is new to you.

This is a company PC, so I am limited in what I can do as well.

Alright.

zak: I'm not aware of any changes concerning that network code. But yes, underlying library versions changed. Please wait for lovetox, maybe he has an answer

cal0pteryx, ok thanks. No problem.

But I am right, a downgrade to 1.8.4 is not possible after the database migration, correct?

Doesn't it create a backup before the migration?

zak: I think it does. Look for logs.db.randomstring.bak

meson, ok, will do so when I am back at work. At least that would be a solution for now.

Yes, there is a backup

zak: good luck! Out of curiosity, what are features which make Gajim a good messenger for a company in your eyes and which features do you miss?

meson, None. It's a leftover from the olden days when there was much more openness to OpenSource and there were no other solutions for chat besides IRC. Some people already said that it should be shut down, but apparently they updated the Debian underneath once more. Almost everyone uses Teams now.

I guess in the company environment, making calls and conferences and screensharing are the most important features.

With Gajim another problem is, that it is not included in any enterprise linux repository like RedHat. And now with the most up-to-date libraries like python-sqlalchemy, there are not even up-to-date packages in Fedora anymore.

I am fighting to keep it still alive as long as possible. But I guess at some point I just don't have any arguments against a shutdown.

Gajim is in fedora, which I assume is redhat-alike? https://packages.fedoraproject.org/pkgs/gajim/gajim/ (though I guess it's a bit of an old version)

luca, see my comment above, it is still on version 1.7.3.

Sounds reasonable. Afaik Fedora is still stuck on 1.7.3 because of protobuf still being a too old version, which is required for nbxmpp. But some people are on it, let's hope it will make it to rawhide soonish ✏

zak: if you're only allowed to install software as the user you're logged in as you can use flatpak --user

to add repos and software

ong, I now, I tried that. It was a solution for me, but it is not for everyone.

over

Why is there no monolithic deb provided that cotains all dependencies?

Some appimage?

would go against packaging guidelines

you can technically

it's just extremely messy

that's the windows way

I'm not sure if it should be the Linux way too

imo anything between 1.7.3 -> 1.9.0 is mostly qol fixes

> Sounds reasonable. > Afaik Fedora is still stuck on 1.7.3 because of protobuf still being a too old version, which is required for nbxmpp. But some people are on it, let's hope it will make it to rawhide soonish This is ongoing since over a year now 😔️ ↺

python deps fail to compile a lot of the time

cuz of the C libraries

it's up to the python library maintainer to make sure the python library works with different C/other lang library versions 6-9

if this doesn't happen it doesn't get pulled in

> Some appimage? I could not find one. Really bad situation. A nice messenger comes with insufficient distribution.

I'm inclined to say that you are just a little picky ;) there _is_ a solution, but you don't _like_ it

That is possible. :-)

user wants this moderated

And how to interpret . As this is an Semi-Anonymous MUC, I expect not to see anyone JID as a normal participant? ✏

. ✏

zak: if you gather a debug log Ivan look into it

lovetox, which log? I pasted the relevant section above. If you tell me what you need I will ask my friend to do that on monday.

18:21

zak: set the server IP as hostname in account settings and try again, then we know if it's really a DNS problem

lovetox, will do. Thank you for your help. I will get back to you on monday.

user wants this moderated

Argh. He is on holiday next week. Then this will probably have to wait another week.

Hey here, is there a "report abuse" function in Gajim?

does any client have this function?

On the XEP pages it should show which clients support which version, just like for the Wayland protocols :)