Gajim - 2024-06-17

on monocles it reports that gajim reactions send as unencrypted messages when using OMEMO

not sure if it's possible to encrypt them, or if this is intentional, but seems kind of dangerous

It is not possible with the current version of OMEMO, only message content is encrypted

hey guys

i have a question especially for the core gajim devs

how hard is it to get started writing a xmpp client from scratch with an existing xmpp library

i ask this because there are a ton of xmpp clients out there and most of them are pretty bad, lets face it

gajim is one of the best

i'd like to try to write one but dont want to end up with yet another abandoned project

> Crash report - > https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/d3eab9b8-663d-4c27-b2a6-1b0f90c95c42 lovetox: this room itself (gajim@conference.gajim.org) is one of the rooms where the error occurs. In ~/.config/gajim/settings.db - account_settings table, the value of my account is `{"account": {"name": ... "address": "myjid@server.tld"} ,"contact": {...} ...}` ...so there _is_ an address key, what should I do in that case? ↺

concerto: can you try downgrading the user version to 5 ✏

Using SQLite browser for example

Oh, I was using `M-x sql-sqlite` in Emacs 😅️ I'm not familiar with working with JSON in SQLite, though...

(Figuring it out from tutorials)

cal0pteryx, lovetox: where is this user version? Can't seem to find it in settings.sqlite

Google SQLite user vesion

I think pragma user_version = 5

Thanks, let's see.

Please check also if there are other accounts in the database

And if they all have the address key

> I think pragma user_version = 5 https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/fe1c9e23-69ce-44bb-ba3f-183c6d752d31 ↺

> And if they all have the address key lovetox: according to `select account,json_extract (settings, '$.account.address') from account_settings;` I have 11 accounts, and only one does not have an address key. ↺

I know it was a much requested feature but it would be great if reactions could be made optional or at least editable, I just find them a distraction.

They are editable. By clicking a reaction, you can toggle your own reaction

I think they meant "hideable". I'm surprised that one would want that as one of the values of reactions is to improve signal to noise ratio in groups IMHO. (by avoiding replies such as "ok", "ack", "thanks", or "omg")

concerto: that one is the problem, can you check name and hostname on that one?

Do you see that account in the accounts dialog?

> They are editable. By clicking a reaction, you can toggle your own reaction Right click post it left click does nothing ↺

> concerto: that one is the problem, can you check name and hostname on that one? lovetox: I can see it in the accounts dialog. Its JSON settings don't contain a name key, nor a hostname key. ↺

Can you send me the whole Jason?

Then delete the row from the db

Afterwards it should work

> Right click post it left click does nothing not sure what you mean, but the default behaviour is left click adds your reaction and removes it. you can't remove reactions from others if that's what you're looking for. right click on reactions does nothing, it's expected ↺

concerto: if you see it in the accounts dialog

lovetox: sent as an INSERT statement via PM; it has some personal contacts and MUCs, but it's strange...I don't have any password manager entry for any account on this server...

You can simply remove it from gajim

Error when I try to remove it from the GUI... 😅

## Versions: https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/0c78b31c-18eb-4716-87f9-38a7f8b8a9d1

> not sure what you mean, but the default behaviour is left click adds your reaction and removes it. you can't remove reactions from others if that's what you're looking for. right click on reactions does nothing, it's expected Yes I got the buttons the wrong way round but how do you edit them, I know you can choose for the other button but can you remove or choose the existing ones. ↺

I mean the reaction icons

Just to clarify I would like to know if I can remove or reduce the size ie remove the icons for a feature that I do not use

You can not hide the icons

The same way you can not hide messages from users ✏

An odd comparison, messages are what xmpp is about reactions are added fluff 😄️

> The same way you can not hide messages from users That's something I'd like. A "blocklist" which is synchronized between the user's clients, which hides messages instead of blocking them. Then we can later unhide them if desired, and users have the full chat history at all times regardless of who they block. ✏ ↺

> An odd comparison, messages are what xmpp is about reactions are added fluff 😄️ I don't think it's odd, they convey information, eg, I use them in my work chats to quickly acknowledge messages I receive sometimes. ↺

I cant figure out file transfer ?

can someone assist

windows 7 x64

How can I get Ubuntu to install latest version via apt? I get version 1.3.1 using apt. flatpak gets latest version.

on Release: 22.04 Codename: jammy

2125555555: do you see a paperclip button in any chat?

Michael: either update your ubuntu install or use flatpak

how do I update my ubuntu install?

a fresh install installs an older via

older version*

Ubuntu 24.04 is the latest release, that's what I meant by "update your ubuntu"

Or you just use flatpak

I am on pop_os to be exact. any way to get it to grab the latest gajim version without having to use flatpak?

Michael: you need to figure out if you are using the latest version of pop_os. If so, then yes, flatpak is your only option

You can track package updates here, but this "pop_os" isn't even listed https://repology.org/project/gajim/versions

ill just use flatpak then. thanks

lovetox: I removed it using SQLite and Gajim now works. Thanks. No idea how that account got there, since I don't even have a record of ever registering it...

mcneb10, with a library you can relatively fast make a very very basic client, but then its basically a endless mountain you need to climb > 50% of the work is frontend, so you need to have a very good understanding of your GUI framework, and do a lot of styling and design work, can be an issue if you fun lies in programming, because client a client that has not a least a bit of beauty is no fun. Then you need to study many many different standards .. if you make a new client you have almost no user base, which can be an issue to get feedback

i would suggest contribute to a client of your choice to get a bit into it, if after many contributions you still have the wish to do it yourself, at least you better know what you get into

Stupid question, if I'm an owner of a MUC, how do I remove a post? I'm running 1.9.0 which is supposed to support xep-0425, but I can't figure out how to use that support. I also couldn't find documentation on how to implement it. Could someone point me to documentation on gajims implementation of xep-0425?

Hi, I was hyped by 1.9 release, so I `flatpak update`'d, butt then I got this error : ImportError: cannot import name 'TypeAliasType' from 'typing_extensions' (/app/plugins/site-packages/typing_extensions.py)

Full trace here if needed: pastebin.com/cxvNChJF

Should I open an issue for that or is there a simple way of fixing I'm missing?

noizette: try removing the omemo plugin

inside of flatpak

ong: Yeeha, it's working! thanks, if it's frequent, maybe it could be added to the release note or something? :)

hell ye

And thanks for this awaited release, btw :)

Nick: menu on the message should have a moderate menu option

but your server needs to support message moreation

> but your server needs to support message moreation This was it. Don't know how I missed the "muc_moderation" module. Thanks! ↺

> i would suggest contribute to a client of your choice to get a bit into it, if after many contributions you still have the wish to do it yourself, at least you better know what you get into thanks for the info ↺

i do know a lot about the XMPP protocol and XEPs and have written some existing apps

if a client using the language i want exists i guess i will fork that

mcneb10: which language do you want to use?

i was thinking dart+flutter because i have decent experience with it ✏

it has good libraries and compiles to every platform

not sure how good the XMPP libraries are though but multiple exist ✏

https://github.com/BlueBubblesApp/bluebubbles-app

this is a pretty good example of what flutter is capable of

ok nevermind soemone is already making my idea

https://codeberg.org/moxxy/moxxy

seems promising, will contribute

mcneb10, yes i think its important to have some kind of community where you integrate, even if its only 2-3 people or devs

if you do all alone, it likely will end as a forgotten side project

if you get together with a few people, some people will always have time and carry on, and you can later again contribute if the time allows

> mcneb10: > if a client using the language i want exists i guess i will fork that I wonder if there is a Jabber client in Lisp. Besides of jabber.el. ↺

> I wonder if there is a Jabber client in Lisp. Besides of jabber.el. I'm not aware of one. jabber.el needs love, however. IIRC, it does not support any of the features taken for granted nowadays, HTTP Upload, LMC, MAM, OMEMO, let alone message reactions and replies, A/V calls or PEP microblogging. ↺

Hi, I was wondering if it's possible to get the top menu after hiding it once, and if so how?

luca: ctrl+m

We really need that menu button

Thanks :D

> debacle: > I'm not aware of one. jabber.el needs love, however. IIRC, it does not support any of the features taken for granted nowadays, HTTP Upload, LMC, MAM, OMEMO, let alone message reactions and replies, A/V calls or PEP microblogging. I don't take anything of that as granted, I believe only in core XMPP as of 2001 :P ↺

And condemn the discrimination of clients that don't support any of fancy XEPs. And especially the ModernXMPP movement.

In fact, many of fancy XEPs of the past are already forgotten and are not implemented at all in new clients like Dino or Kaidan. Same might happen with all that reactions and microblogging when the hype is gone.

Even OMEMO, despite actively being promoted as a musthave, is not cast in stone. OMEMO2 is ongoing, MLS too, and OX. So we're heading to a situation with many incompatible encryptions again (or OMEMO just outlives all of them, hehe). While plaintext is always plaintext. Same happens in e-mail: neither HTML nor PGP nor Autocrypt became a musthave.

A standard evolves. Holding on to old stuff isn't necessarily good, and sometimes even hinders evolution.

bodqhrohro I can well live without one or the other newer XEP. But MAM and HTTP Upload a.k.a. cat content are must haves. And stickers, of course.

> cal0pteryx: > A standard evolves. Holding on to old stuff isn't necessarily good, and sometimes even hinders evolution. Holding on to old stuff distinguishes successful, serious and reliable things from hype bubbles which come and go. And the FOSS community is too small to inflate hype bubbles, and too sluggish to keep up with existing ones. ↺

> debacle: > bodqhrohro I can well live without one or the other newer XEP. But MAM and HTTP Upload a.k.a. cat content are must haves. And stickers, of course. What's even the purpose of stickers? You can have a pack of "stickers" in a local folder. And reuse the links, if you care about server pollution. Merely client-side feature to me. ↺

I don't consider MAM a musthave for MUCs, as they had HTML logs well for decades. And the flaws of personal chats (which I didn't notice in 10s, because I barely used Jabber for personal communication then) can be circumvented by replacing them with MUCs as well. Like in Matrix, where no separate type of rooms exists for private chats at all.

bodqhrohro: you seem to reject anything modern, which makes this discussion pointless

> cal0pteryx: > bodqhrohro: you seem to reject anything modern, which makes this discussion pointless Not anything. ↺

Only breaking changes.

How does WinAPI survive without breaking changes for >30 years?

It's awful for sure, but purists are unwelcomed in serious engineering anyway.

so, don't implement omemo, reactions, stickers, because, you know, the "hype" may blow over? rather have dysfunctional encryption, no new features, just for the sake of keeping alive old things?

> cal0pteryx: > so, don't implement omemo, reactions, stickers, because, you know, the "hype" may blow over? rather have dysfunctional encryption, no new features, just for the sake of keeping alive old things? According to UNIX way, encryption should be handled separately from the IM. Even for Android, OpenKeychain exists. I'd hope some independent daemon like that would emerge from MLS, but nah. ↺

Like I said, you'd rather stagnate than progress

In e-mail any new features are opt-in, web users of GMail with chat-like presentation and read receipts, and Claws Mail luddites retrieving mail via POP to their only PC, barely bother each other.

So? Nobody forces you to use omemo, reactions, or stickers

> cal0pteryx: > So? Nobody forces you to use omemo, reactions, or stickers Even those who send OMEMO encrypted messages so users of legacy clients just cannot see them? ↺

OMEMO is totally borked for that matter if compared to MegOLM. Only after a while, you may notice that messages are not encrypted for some of clients after a change of sessions set. So they end up non-decryptable there. And there's no way to decrypt them asynchronously.

And PFS fans promote that as a benefit, hehe.

Even though that makes MAM useless to a high extent.

Tell your friends to chat unencrypted then

Why sync encrypted messages if you cannot decrypt them anymore anyway?

> cal0pteryx: > Tell your friends to chat unencrypted then They won't, they're poisoned by the Snowden paranoia. ↺

Even though they lived well before somehow.

Boomers did even use landline phones where a human operator can intrude or eavesdrop at any moment.

bodqhrohro: please stop rambling

Conversations on 1G phones could be listened by anyone with a usual UHF TV.

..or leave

> cal0pteryx: > ..or leave Or get the second account banned. ↺

I see you've been banned before. consider this your final warning then

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master imprv: ConversationView: Use better method for scrolling to row - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/1c98f8e2583a85b88ed2a7c82f41334fec3a38ee

🤔️

hello

how can i add a custom zip plugin to gajim flatpak_

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master fix: DebugConsole: Fix filtering stanzas when combining accounts and types - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/ac58d8849f7cb3b269d5c76a39f23dd659ebbdd3

57345955, it's recommended to use flatpak-builder to build the plugin

so are there any example instructions?

For examples see https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/-/tree/master/flatpak

57345955: ``` flatpak-builder --user --repo=gajim_flatpak_repo --install-deps-from=flathub --force-clean --default-branch=stable ~/Gajim/gajim_flatpak ~/Gajim/flatpak/your_plugin.yaml flatpak --user install gajim_flatpak_repo org.gajim.Gajim.plugin.your_plugin ``` Skip `--user` if you have a system installation of Gajim. Verify the default branch. You can check both with output of `flatpak list `.