Gajim - 2024-06-04

Attempting to retract a message in Gajim is causing a crash, but one where I can't even copy the traceback nor click on Submit bug report...after the crash, Gajim just freezes and has to be killed and restarted. v1.8.4 on Debian Testing.

concerto, enable debug logging or start gajim in a shell with gajim -v

Oh, thanks.

gajim>preferences>advanced

https://www.jabjab.de:5443/upload/a75f5b15713067434614f6d0c986f536c301cf7e/hot7hJiUb7KF2hkOTF5aFfyW0rBSbNdrbuWixUJ5/debug-log.zip

Not sure I see anything relevant in the log.

gajim's logs are giving many lines of: Error from openhardware@conference.magicbroccoli.de/someuser: not-allowed - Queries to the conference members are not allowed in this room The disco info for this MUC includes: `field var="muc#roomconfig_allow_query_users" type="boolean" label="Occupants are allowed to query others"> <value>0</value> </field>

it seems gajim is misbehaving?

That's a non standard ejabberd option

you requested it, lol

But I think we have code for that

https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/3830

related: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/10937

I wonder if prosody implemented it

I really don't know whether it makes more sense to try to get servers to implement it or to just test whether it's allowed if it isn't declared in disco info

testing seems more realistic

> Attempting to retract a message in Gajim is causing a crash, but one where I can't even copy the traceback nor click on Submit bug report...after the crash, Gajim just freezes and has to be killed and restarted. v1.8.4 on Debian Testing. lovetox: Any idea? I've sent a log archive later, where I attempted to retract a message in philosophy@

No as we don't support retractions .. if there is no error, I can not investigate the cause

lovetox: this was using the overflow menu - Retract message button in Gajim 🤔 ✏

"Database Migration failed" with Gajim 1.8.4+git20240530.7bb24f15-1: https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/6bfb8db5-5452-4693-bcfa-26efd3dcede3

I wonder, if the JID has less than one byte or more than 1023...

lovetox, the git issue should be fixed. :)

debacle: I will fix it in the evening

lovetox Thanks! I'll make a new upload to Debian experimental after your push.

Is it possible to approve or modify PubSub affiliation from Gajim? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#owner-affiliations-modify

No

with the XML console, everything is possible! ;o)

nicoco, I forgot of the XML console! Thank you for the information!

Thank you, lovetox.

I feel like this next release is a significant one

feels good

> oooooooooooo 100% Russian пацан ↺

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master feat: Voice Messages - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/0b428373b074d603c3ff4093fc4980c0ef0e5adb

thanks meson for this big contribution ! 🥳️

You are welcome! 🍻

meson, thank you, we finally have this functionality! gajim's getting better and better everyday!

🎉

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: VoiceRecorder: Improve strings for translation - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/717ed7e3ab257f7a258e8b089fabad50b2275a37

cal0pteryx, aren’t numbers translated in some languages?

might be, yes, never heard of that. In any case, we did not do that in Gajim in the past, so it's unified now. Do you have examples, Link Mauve?

cal0pteryx, in Japanese one would use full-width characters for instance: ０：００

I believe Arabic and Hindi also use their own digit characters, but I don’t speak either of these.

ok then i would say lets wait until a user comes which speaks this language and cares enough to tell us

I am telling you, this is how it works in Japanese.

But you can find them on a search engine with “hindi numbers” or “arabic numbers”.

from what ive seen, Japanese writing has a mixture of the native system and the one used by english speakers

Japanese is weird there because it also has its numbering scheme, 一, 二, 三, etc., but then uses western numbers in UIs, except at full-width instead of half-width.

they are used for different things, and i'd definitely get a native speakers thoughts for the correct usage

iirc it would be appropriate to just use the western numbers

Link Mauve, we solve problems that actual users have, not theoretical ones

Do you have no Japanese, Arabic or Hindi speaking users, for real?

But sure, real users go through the pain of using half-translated software all the time.

Sorry i dont know the whole user base of Gajim, but we certainly have no one that cared enough to raise an issue, so i assume everything is alright

the main gajim webpage isn't translated into those languages

Perhaps they don’t speak good enough English to reach you.

I know many French users who are plain ashamed of their English, and so never raise any issue.

so a native speaker that doesn't know english or any other language on the webpage would not be be here for sure

and those people would also avoid half translated software

I usually try to speak up for them whenever I can, but this is only the small subset of French users who also know me.

Hmmm, this prompted me to look up “Arabic numerals”, as I’ve always been told that our western numbers came from Arabic.

not sure what you propose, that we solve problems for people we dont know exist, but could theoretically exist, and they could theoretically have a problem

oooor, i look into the 250 issues on our tracker real users have raised :D

Turns out there are two Arabic numeral systems, western (what we use) and eastern.

No, just don’t prevent translation of numbers with known languages which translate them differently from English.

I often do drive-by review of commits I see here, I could stop if that isn’t welcome.

(When I have time to do it.)

In turn, both were derived from Indian numerals. Utterly irrelevant to this discussion, but an interesting bit of knowledge regardless 🙃

im not telling you what to do, just dont raise issues where you dont know that actual users have a problem with, we have enough work on our hands, you dont need to invent problems

So trying to improve the experience for users I don’t personally know isn’t welcome?

I remind you this is just about the removal of a translatable="yes".

This causes no additional workload to translators which use the same time system as English.

i think you understand perfectly what im trying to say

It does show, however, that translation of numerals is not as straightforward as one might think.

we dont translate numbers in Gajim, this is the answer to your question

But GLib probably does.

And I doubt it’s worth the effort.

and we are not going to start, until actual users show up, and tell us that they cant use Gajim because we dont translate numbers

This is again not about not being able to use it.

Everyone I guess is able to read western numbers, they are so ubiquitous.

use it, having a UX problem with it, dont like it, whatever you want to call it

But this is the difference between a half-translated software, and a well-polished one.

im not sure against what you are discussing here, all i have is a very basic requirement for a software project

Hindi-speaking user here, AMA 👋 ✏

that actual users communicate their requirements and describe the problems they need solving

concerto, how are durations displayed usually?

Are they 0:00, 12:34, etc., with minutes:seconds?

I actually haven't ever seen durations in Hindi numerals. MM:SS probably risks being mistaken for time of day (HH:MM)... ✏

In which cases are these numerals used?

concerto, we have the same issue in English and French, but when you see SS increase once per second it quickly resolves to MM:SS.

Then using Hindi numerals shouldn't be a problem, either... 🤔

But is there an advantage to using Hindi numerals,i.e. does using “western” numerals cause an issue for native Hindi speakers?

I thought “western” numerals were pretty much universal

> But is there an advantage to using Hindi numerals,i.e. does using “western” numerals cause an issue for native Hindi speakers? Most Hindi-speakers (at least urban ones) are probably more used to Western numerals than Hindi numerals 👀 ↺

But if somebody's actually configured Hindi as the application or system language? I guess it's a good idea to use Hindi numerals, then. ✏

As lovetox has pointed out, unless actual users report the use of “western” numerals as an obstacle, I doubt it’s worth the effort. It’d be interesting though to see what other software does, out of sheer curiosity.

hey, just chiming in to say that gajim has been a delight to use as of late, and the reactions/replies really add to it, so, good job there :)

It certainly isn't just the "translatable" tag, but also every place where numbers would be formatted in the code. This would be a change which should come unified for all numbers. But as nobody voiced this as an actual problem, I'm investing my time elsewhere. I just saw 0:00 in Weblate and we normally don't translate that.

See an appropriate use for the ❤️ emoji, and only one click :)

But thanks for the insight, Link Mauve!

lovetox pushed 2 commits to branch python-nbxmpp/master imprv: Protocol: Improve error message when parsing JIDs - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/79a39033c05d1b7bf4d071336a73fbda012446a5 chore: Update .gitignore - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/7343544fe8e5e57d4fdbd7646ae31b261c065dee

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: Migration: Don’t fail when account jid can not be determined - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/3c0c33a78b67e5ec0dc1b5597f082a641c12cfc3

^ debacle

meson, cal0pteryx: I wasn't remembering all the details anymore but my last status had been that I wasn't able to `pip install nbxmpp` on Mac because some GTK related resource could not be found even though it was installed. Well, when I tried again on Monday nbxmpp installed without a hitch, so something must have gotten fixed in Homebrew. However, I am still struggling to install all the remaining dependencies and the main difficulty is knowing which packages I should get from Homebrew and which ones I should rather install with pip (into a venv). Right now Gajim is failing to launch because `import AppKit` fails to find AppKit even though pyobjc is installed. ✏

Starting to think that I should recreate my venv from scratch because Homebrew might have updated the Python version in the meantime and might be installing packages into site directories for another Python version than my venv.

elfchen: maybe initializing a new venv is a good idea. Generally there are tow new dependencies: sqlalchemy and emoji, both installable via pip

I'll happily update the wiki after your feedback :)

I've also seen some fixes which might make it possible to build an installer for gajim on MacOS. I might give it another try some time soon

lovetox Thanks! Uploading to Debian experimental right now!

cal0pteryx: (y)

Question about the new "voice messages" feature: How can I use it? I don't see any new button. Where would I have to look for it? Screenshot welcome! :-)

> Question about the new "voice messages" feature: How can I use it? I don't see any new button. Where would I have to look for it? Screenshot welcome! :-) Answering my own question: After updating nbxmpp, too, there is a microphone symbol clearly visible right to the text editing field! ↺