Gajim - 2024-05-21

meson: regarding >Need to investigate: Is it called audiotestsrc on all platforms or are there more devices to be blacklisted? Are you wanting to know the input devices listed in the gajim preferences menu?

ubuntu 23.10 has 'Audio test', but not 'audiotestsrc' ✏

looks like gajim detects lack of support for replies but not reactions

ann Is there a MUC for your software, where I can follow the development and ask (stupid) questions?

fjklp: lack of support as in..?

I press the reaction button and nothing happens

Please check the logs

ok

fjklp: 1:1 chat or MUC?

muc

Channel or Private?

"public", not sure what the channel/private distinction is

fjklp: thanks. Thats a public channel then. It needs support for occupant id. But the reaction widget should only show if this condition is met. So logs are necessary :)

I still need to memorize modernxmpp guidlines

Wow! REACTIONS HAVE LANDED IN MASTER! 😱️ GG cal0pteryx and lovetox !

I'm not sure how I feel about reactions but I honestly am very happy about replies

I don't know if it's my GTK theme, but the emoji count looks a bit too close to the right side, or the emoji too far away from the left side maybe. It does not matter much TBH but that's my feedback so far ;)

https://upload.slidge.im:5281/file_share/jVza7XrqXZTjhl5ZkULRQ95-/Screenshot_20240521_091123.png

Also, maybe the emoji count in 1:1 chat is not necessary, not sure about that. The telegram desktop client does not have any count in 1:1 chats FWIW.

nicoco: you can check with gtk inspector. It looks like the emoji label has some x-padding

> Also, maybe the emoji count in 1:1 chat is not necessary, not sure about that. The telegram desktop client does not have any count in 1:1 chats FWIW. That's indeed a point :D ↺

the count digit looks to have equal space on both sides for me, unlike that screenshot

Hmmm OK my GTK theme sucks theme

> That's indeed a point :D Oh I just checked, telegram does display a count when there is more than one reaction, even in 1:1. The contour of the emoji bubble indicates whether or not *you* reacted with that one, but without the count you can't tell at a glance if the other party also reacted with that one emoji. ↺

Maybe it's just count=1 that's useless after all

True

I'll check how it looks in comparison

> nicoco: you can check with gtk inspector. It looks like the emoji label has some x-padding Indeed, it had `row {row label { padding-left: 8px` - reactions looks much better with that set to 0 ↺

A bit more annoying, switching from and to MUCs with a lot of messages and reactions freezes for several seconds, I think it should be easy to reproduce by opening xmpp:discuss@conference.soprani.ca?join (and maybe lurk for a few days…)

Anyway, I'm thrilled this was merged, since my gateways have been supporting that for almost 2 years and the client I use the most by far now supports them. I can't wait to discover new bugs now that I will use them daily through my gateways. So far it looks awesome, even my hacks for networks that only support 1 emoji/message or a subset of emojis. I'll have a look at adding support for https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0444.html#disco-restricted for a better UI in this case, I wonder how easy it is to customize the emoji picker (I fear it is not trivial at all).

its not possible

Crap! I thought so. I guess I could still have a stab at that 1 emoji/user/message restriction though.

in a MUC?

its not necessary, if the muc does not allow it, gajim will not display it

In 1:1 too. My current hack involves sending a "emoji clear" stanza on behalf of the user for 1:1 chats, if the server allows the gateway to do it via XEP-0356: Privileged Entity

Also the gateway replies with an error stanza to the emoji stanza and sends a chat message to the user: "Maximum 1 emoji/message". Just silently ignoring the reaction is worse UX wise. Anyway, these are gateway-specific details, we shouldn't care too much. With server-side XEP-0356 support it's actually more than OK with gajim right now.

> A bit more annoying, switching from and to MUCs with a lot of messages and reactions freezes for several seconds, I think it should be easy to reproduce by opening xmpp:discuss@conference.soprani.ca?join (and maybe lurk for a few days…) Huh, it's now OK after all, for some reason it only happened the first time I switched to that chat. Maybe there is some additional DB migration when we first open a MUC or something? Weird. ✏ ↺

no but that chat has 1000 members

maybe close the roster

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master new: Do not log warning on presence of unavailable MUC member - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/ca8254246adbe5b05bd64cc1d3349e0be4a5954a

nicoco, also if you are on a laptop, Gajim performs considerably worse if you are on low battery and your OS goes into energy saving mode

ann: >our goal is to achieve something like Telegram in its best state, like year ~2018, when UI was clean and nice and UX was one of the best in messengers, Imho telegram's defining trait isn't the UI but rather that it's more like a common cloud database - efficient history search, editable and deletable history, etc. All things that all xmpp clients lack *severely* and imho not easily changeable - xmpp still to this day manages to screw up message order or fail delivery altogether.

in a ecosystem where every user can setup his own server, there is much more chance to fuck something up, as with a centralized messenger service

> maybe close the roster maybe that was it, yeah ↺

I have never seen matrix losing messages tbb. It's about the algorithms I guess.

Xmpp's QoS methods seem... Like an interesting choice

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch python-nbxmpp/master imprv: Improve support for full stanza encryption - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/f143eae3a7dc5300d843d7e4c163f78e8bef7e54

I never saw my server lose a message, so i guess we are even :D

and dont google "Matrix missing messages" or else you will discover that your experience is maybe not a universal truth

shhhh… ignorance is bliss

> Imho telegram's defining trait isn't the UI but rather that it's more like a common cloud database - efficient history search, editable and deletabl https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/7b4cc8ac-b88a-4073-973a-c282d1f8a473

wut

okay, seems to be longpost :D

> ubuntu 23.10 has 'Audio test', but not 'audiotestsrc' The latter is a technical name I'm looking for

> I never saw my server lose a message, so i guess we are even :D I saw messages being lost on official shitmatrix server and also saw single messages being delivered two or three times on our own synapse instance, so IMO matrix is NIH XMPP :) by the way, could someone recommend reliable bridge between XMPP and matrix? I saw at least three different implementations, bifrost, etc, and also newer releases of Ejabberd could serve Matrix and XMPP simultaneously, did someone tested it?

thanks for sharing your experience ann, and also about your previous post about a fork of conversations, we are not in competition to other xmpp clients, if you offer a client some users like, i think its a net positive

lovetox pushed 2 commits to branch gajim/master imprv: Add transport icons to MUC avatars - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/fda071119bfd4d1635210dc5cc409ba24a6a02b4 cq: Remove duplicate method - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/55d904c18bd049b42042732d55d24f3e479f39f4

> and dont google "Matrix missing messages" or else you will discover that your experience is maybe not a universal truth Nothing found ↺

>Gajim is in Python and my laptop with Ryzen 7 is overcoming with 100% core load Pretty sure those two are not relevant, must be some bug where gajim enters a busy loop >I saw messages being lost on official shitmatrix server and also saw single messages being delivered two or three times on our own synapse instance, Bruh... I guess I just didn't use matrix enough to encounter this. I didn't expect them to have the same idiotic problems as xmpp.

ann: what telegram bridge do you use? I tried some but it shat itself violently where I would get group chat replies as personal messages etc

matrix is way worse I use both xmpp and matrix

I kinda wish there were also bridges for telegram/whatsapp calls

if you accept media from matrix.org csam gets mirrored on ur server almost instantly if you hang out in any public chat

matrix is sustainable for enterprise but not end users and hobbiests

>in other hand, Jabber is designed in 1998, when there was no cloud and unlimited internet from every tree in a any forest The amount of xml bloat it sends around... Almost seems like they did expect unlimited internet

idk the biggest fail point is retention on the server

if the retention is offloaded to the clients the server pretty much just acts like a relay

once the message is transported to the client it's stored atomically

matrix servers don't act as relays they act as restapis between the clients and the servers

chatting without a relay method is way more bloat than chatting with a relay method because you have to constantly pull data from the server

cal0pteryx: thanks for the refactor, reads much sleeker now

Will try do adopt this style in the future ✏

Anyrhing left to do except testing on other platforms?

lovetox pushed 2 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: Message: Fallback to message-id if origin-id is not available - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/4f43bf2e5960e07c261070fe7e70d7015a09a6b7 cfix: Reactions: Display emojis always with emoji presentation - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/134601e22328abe99e6b21548adf35439a55db44

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: Reactions: Fix emoji presentation in tooltip - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/7922bd103e03d5b433514d01f0e21daabf235eff

meson: thank you :) I'll try to test it on Windows next. Then it's good to go from my side

Great, maybe lovetox can also have a look and the last say. But no rush, I don't wanna push anything, I'd feel better if it were worked out as good as possible before it gets merged. ✏

cal0pteryx: could you tell me what specifically you want from the logs? Would this be an iq stanza from the server? Just let me know what you need.

fjklp: just a debug log from the moment you click on the reaction button

Well, next (soon) I'll try to figure out where and how to add extension points in order to write plugins for STT for both the recorder (live) and player.

cal0pteryx: 2024-05-21T11:12:11 (W) gajim.gtk.conversation.rows.message| No reaction id 2024-05-21T11:12:12 (I) gajim.gtk.main | Captured key pressed: Alt_L

that's it

unless you are looking for something many seconds later

what does not work fjklp ?

in this particular muc, pressing the reaction button does nothing

check if it supports archiving

it does not

yeah, then you cannot use reactions

we will disable it in the interface

alright

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master cfix: Reactions: Disable reactions if stanza-id is not supported in MUCs - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/3349412ab0ca228eca60cc16da75391809f17221

> Well, next (soon) I'll try to figure out where and how to add extension points in order to write plugins for STT for both the recorder (live) and player. Nice :D ↺

After debian (sid) upgrade this morning the icons have almost doubled in size and I can't reduce the participant column width which worked ok before. I have now toggled it off as it was taking 25% of the (gajim) screen Similar problem with Claws mail (GTK) but I have managed to restore that as before.

> We can also do fancy things with css I think. Like inverting cal0pteryx this sounds potentially good

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master refactor: Reactions/Replies: Improve check for action availability - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/d02cddc9e2624ee62def1701907f7719bd3f6b67

ic_, can you show a screenshot

if it affects multiple applications, it doubtful that is a Gajim problem

nothing comes to mind that we changed regarding avatars recently

Yes I agree it is unlikely a gajim issue apart from not being able to reduce the column width

I've noticed sometimes a chat is stuck in the connecting state and if I just press abort, then connect, it connects after a seconds or two. Maybe this connection thing needs a timer to retry or something?

that was on the most recent nightly deb. I guess I need to be careful to only report on current nightly

lovetox pushed 2 commits to branch gajim/master change: Rename XML Console to Debug Console - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/061953ce2a40eb06eb60192f54753c6c4a19c25d chore: Update translations - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/32b80b33cb6fc9005ee3907b08dc19da629e57e3

Gajim turned 20 today 🎂️https://fosstodon.org/@gajim/112479605400464119

Happy birthday and thanks a lot to asterix!

Wow 20 years !

Happy birthday Gajim!!!

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch python-nbxmpp/master cq: Protocol: Add type annotations - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/7033d15fb5be2d7644c530dbd1d04859a3b97780

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master chore: DOAP: Add 'since' for XEP-0444 and XEP-0461 - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/34345c7f6d6758246e35e41fcd2bcb611292f90f

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master fix: Store message drafts when switching workspaces - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/067b3e218dafa6e5c60ea8d33cff3c6565f726cb

> Happy birthday and thanks a lot to asterix! 👍️⭐️ ↺

.... and all others involved ... ( it made several days of my life when far away from my neighbourhood & while covid ... )) thank you , all ✏

Why sometimes ctrl c doesnt work and need to click on : to select copy ?

no idea, it works for me always, maybe try to find the condition where it does not work

Ichtyx, Gajim 1.8.4 had an issue with Ctrl+C. Do you run from master or 1.8.4?

cal0pteryx, ah yeah 1.8.4 from arch

didn't know, it was recommanded to run from master 😅️ ✏

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch python-nbxmpp/master feat: Update XEP-0425 to latest version - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/8b517205bef7f4e0d1bf28a91614744a38ec4f4e

lovetox pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master refactor: Moderation: Adapt to nbxmpp changes - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/e6ca21529eb60c843d057dfe180802c6169c611c

Ichtyx, there will be soon a new release

1.8.5 or 1.9 ?

btw congratz on 20 years and all the new stuff in master (reaction and co) 🍾️

Ichtyx, it's not recommended to run from master, that's only for the brave :D 1.9 will be the next version

cal0pteryx, 🤡️ was joking sorry

why Gajim sometimes does indicate unread messages in permanently muted private chat?

> Ichtyx, it's not recommended to run from master, that's only for the brave :D 1.9 will be the next version I hope one of dudes with A/V DTLS PR will make it until 1.9 :D

> why Gajim sometimes does indicate unread messages in permanently muted private chat? sounds like a bug ↺

could be that highlight overrides mute? please keep an eye on the specific message that causes this

mentions in private messages?

in MUC of course there was indication of unread in case of highlight

in private messages mentions should be ignored, shouldn't they?

wurstsalat pushed 1 commits to branch gajim/master chore: DOAP: Update XEP-0425 version - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/0437aaee15fe53b9c435624a04e40f4d4c133ea7

> Gajim turned 20 today 🎂️https://fosstodon.org/@gajim/112479605400464119 Congratulations, to the next 20 years! 💚️ ↺

lovetox pushed 2 commits to branch python-nbxmpp/master cfix: Moderation: Adapt IQ request to new XEP version - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/25e8b69ea20e8885203b16d748983e24db5b6b34 imprv: Add new moderation namespace disco info property - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/-/commit/314a631a3d64cafc20facb20306776a95d747704

It is possible to have an article on website for the birthday?

lovetox pushed 2 commits to branch gajim/master refactor: Rename moderation related code - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/a151aa67487850cf7867e5b13eefb68f58aac5e9 feat: Support XEP-0425 0.3.0 - https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/commit/28b508fb9478f423ad46ddab1f33932d7452b63c

I thought the mute option only prevents audio notifications?

ah yes, should be correct

ann, mute means only no system/sound notification

of course you still want to know when someone wrote you a message in this chat or not?

I also was under the false assumption that this setting would prevent all notifications and actually wanted that feature. I wouldn't be surprised if others have this wrong assumption. It might be something to consider to rename it or even implement total notification prevention.