Gajim - 2023-12-04

hi 2 everybody ... -please,- how to install plugins correctly ?? (>>on gajim 1.7.3 - debian 12 ?? --via debian packet -manager or in gajim program itself ( as in earlier gajim version -) ??

Since the last upgrade of Gajim, it tries to access a "kdewallet". `sudo apt remove --purge \*wallet\*` removed a lot of cruft, but Gajim still wants "kdewallet". What can I do about it? (On Dino for now.)

lou23 Just `sudo apt install gajim-<whateverpluginyoulikeandhopefullyispackagedindebian>`.

You can check with `apt search gajim-`

okay ,- thank you, debacle ,- -unfortunately I cannot help with your question , (even when also using dino ) - I have not much experiencewith kde ... pardon

I never used KDE in my life. I'm on EXWM ;-) That's why I'm surprised, that a KDE program is called now.

..oh ! .. 🤔️ - I see

..isn't there any explanation on dino help, maybe ?

... just for genereal info - because I was searching for info btw. -->> ( everybody savant may not read ;) ) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE_Wallet KDE Wallet Manager is a tool to manage passwords on the KDE Plasma system. By using the KWallet subsystem it not only allows you to keep your own secrets but also to access and manage the passwords of every application that integrates with KWallet. Note: Since KDE Frameworks 5.97.0 KDE Wallet supports org.freedesktop.secrets DBus API and can now be used by libsecret for storing and retrieving passwords and other secrets using the Secret Service API. Unlock KDE Wallet automatically on login To unlock KDE Wallet automatically on login, install kwallet-pam for the PAM compatible module. The chosen KWallet password must be the same as the current user password. ...

..so maybe this is something passwort managing , that has to be unlocked before using dino ? 🤔️

Problem solved. `/usr/bin/kwalletd5` was still running, even when already removed.

👍️( ..>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/w2flsi/kde_wallet_popup_how_to_disable/?rdt=44840 > > Edit - Solution was to edit the kwalletrc file and change it to disabled, and mentioned in one of the comments. > > ... ))

debacle: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/wikis/keyring

lou23: generally via your distribution's packages

cal0pteryx: thx.

cal0pteryx Thanks! Oh, nice, there is a `pass` backend for `keyring`: https://pypi.org/project/keyring-pass/ Maybe I can get rid of seahorse etc.

Even better, there even is a `pass` backend for `Secret Service`: https://github.com/mdellweg/pass_secret_service

It would be really nice if I could see the full jid in the accounts dialog. Is there any change we could make that happen?

chance, not change

it is visible in the general section

oh you mean the full jid incl the resource?

i rather not expose the user to a random string

i would treat this as internal thing of xmpp

you would need to make a case first *why* a user needs to know this string

i for one did not miss it until you mentioned it now

the resource can be looked at in the "Connection" section of accounts

i think this fine enough, i dont see how a user needs this day by day

> oh you mean the full jid incl the resource? No, I mean user@example.com. I guess it's called bare jid. Right now, it's often displayed like 'user@exa...' ✏

Located at Accounts > Modify Accounts. It's often truncated due to width limitations.

Which leads me to a question that's bothered me for awhile. Are user interface elements usually programmed by pixel width, number of text characters of width, absolute (inch/mm) width, display proportion width, or something else? ✏

Char length. But we could add a tooltip, if there is not more space left.

gaaahhhhhhh

What's that supposed to mean?

Check out how firefox does modal (cannot interact with other windows until you close this one) windows. Press Ctrl+S. It's always vertically and horizaontally centered. You can resize it to take up basically the entire display and firefox will always remember it (at least for me on ubuntu 23.10 with gnome). Then check out how firefox does dialogs (you can interact with other windows while this window is opened). Press Ctrl+O to open the 'Library' window. Resize it to whatever. With this one, for me, it remember the window size but not the position, which is fine if you maximize it because it will remember that you want it maximized. Is there any reason this can't be done with all gajim dialogs?

> What's that supposed to mean? Frustration with the proposed solution.

Of course we could store all window positions and sizes for gajim. But nobody asked for that in the time I contribute to this project.

If you are frustrated, then please elaborate instead of "gaaah"

well, don't take it personally

It was a rare time I allow myself to show a little emotion

and it felt like the most accurate expression I could give

> Of course we could store all window positions and sizes for gajim. But nobody asked for that in the time I contribute to this project. Does this take a lot of work? I have no idea.

Yes, it requires to add settings for every window, so: quite a lot. It also inflates the codebase, reduces maintainability. The there come multi monitor setups, and so on.. if it's not necessary, it should not be implemented

dang. alright

I really like the search feature in the keyboard shortcuts modal. It would be nice to have that in the global preferences and account preferences. It seems like people might benefit from that. Do you think that too would be unnecessary bloat? It's one of the things I really like about firefox, being able to search the preferences.

it would be nice, but much work for little gain

i rather spend the time on features users use for chatting

and to add to the discussion about window sizes

yes we could store window sizes, we cannot store window positions

on wayland it does not allow us to position the window, its not the job of the application anymore as it seems

the thing is fjklp i think you see things differently because you seem to test really much, you play with all kind of settings, try multiple accounts etc

you certainly are not a "common" user

if i open preferences 10 times a day, things like you mentioned matter, if i open it once in a month .. not so much ✏

You are right, it is partly because of my frequent testing that some of these things become more important. But I think There are actual benefits for regular users too. For example everything I've mentioned today. I do try to recommend stuff that I think is generally useful, not just for me. And I have seen people asking "how do I change this thing" in here many times, and in those times it made me think how a search feature might be of use there.

> if i open preferences 10 times a day, things like you mentioned matter, if i open it once in a month .. not so much I get what you mean but I think ease of use matters, even when it's not an everyday thing. A smooth experience is nice. I'm sure firefox users are not changing their preferences daily.

> i rather spend the time on features users use for chatting I understand. Developer time is limited.

So, I just throw out ideas sometimes and accept that they might be rejected.

> on wayland it does not allow us to position the window, its not the job of the application anymore as it seems Good to know. I wonder how long it will be before the attitude of most people becomes "that's an X11 problem, I don't care".

the idea is that the window manager remembers window positions, not the application anymore

not sure how good this works yet

I'm not saying I have something against Wayland, but I'm not yet using it, yet. ✏

fjklp, dont get me wrong, i very much value your input and findings, what i wanted to say is, we try to optimize for things that most users benefit

yeah, that's understandable

and I'm happy if I can help the project in some way

so, thanks for saying that :)

And also, if someone wants to work on that be my guest

of course im open to everything that makes UX better, doesnt matter which part of Gajim it is :)

Hopefully, I'll eventually get my coding abilities to where I can do stuff myself.

Preferences search is on the list for the "universal search". There is an issue for that already :)

oh, cool

Do debug logs contain all sent and received xml stanzas?

I need to catch some stuff that happens at startup

yes

this seems wrong

I'm seeing messages like this

gajim.c.m.omemo | (lightwitch.org) OMEMO room discovered: room@conference.example.com

but my lightwitch account is not connected to that muc, and never was

I found out about this because of a notice I got from lightwitch.org

it's some GDPR compliance message letting me know that I'm sending stanzas to the above muc

seems you do

you can simply grep for that address and will find it

you mean to find the stanzas?

find anything

will everything fit the regex 'lightwitch.org.*room@example.com' ?

I don't know if I can expect lightwitch to be there

I only find the above message twice with that regex

nope, nothing more

so, it's not normal for an account server to know about a muc I'm in if I never joined with that account, right?

I've never connected to any chat from that lightwitch account, it's a testing account that I made only for the purpose of my provider review

and that muc is real and one that I use omemo in

i looked at the code

its a global event, and all accounts get it

its confusing in the log, but it should not do anything bad

but yeah the omemo module is a bit weird, it catches global events and does not check for the account

i should look into that

this is a bit troubling to me. how can I capture the exact stanzas? I don't see them in the debug log.