Gajim - 2023-09-21

> Well, "Gaijin" (外人) literally means foreigner and alien. How about a Roswell alien head? Or one with a speech bubble - I'd go for that. That is Japanese...

4u

you're a big guy

I do not like the old Jabber logo and the old Ejabberd logo, those confuse newbies. But I vote for supporting Gajim to change a new logo, they should never use any old version and forget them. 😁

☭Mike Yellow, I'm pretty sure "Gajim" was derived from "Gaijin"

If that is true. Then the creators of Gajim are Japanese-speakers?

Not necessarily. It's a well known word the world over. And it means "foreigner", and could easily be construed to mean the means of bringing foreigners together. We're all foreigners here. ;)

Alright.

https://upload.va1der.ca:5281/upload/XkxJUZ2hLwdMhcGz/gajim.png

how would you modernise gajim's logo?

> VA1DER a écrit : > ☭Mike Yellow, I'm pretty sure "Gajim" was derived from "Gaijin" gtk another jabber instant messenger. also derived from Gaim, the deadname of Pidgin.

Can't build a bridge ,my computer can't connect to Jabber server,anyone know what's wrong?

> Does mac Gajim1.8 not support otr? vagrant: we have updated the OTR plugin recently, now it supports 1.8.

> I do not like the old Jabber logo and the old Ejabberd logo, those confuse newbies. But I vote for supporting Gajim to change a new logo, they should never use any old version and forget them. > 😁 ☭Mike Yellow: should we also get rid of diskettes on save icons then?

yes

replace it with a cloud, and a arrow above the cloud, pointing to it

:P

Light bubbles are a good source of needles for electrolysis epilation, BTW.

>should we also get rid of diskettes on save icons then? I'm a fan of diskettes as save icons

spinning cds are good

Until they crack at the high speed.

They rarely, if ever, crack from being spun up to 52x.

There are reported cases of that though, especially for StarForce games which change the read location very often.

Oh, just heared the drive noise there recently: https://youtu.be/C0ZXw3gG70c

> ☭Mike Yellow: should we also get rid of diskettes on save icons then? Maybe, after the last one generation people who know what diskette is pass away. Even this is the first time I learn the English word “diskette”.

https://suchat.org:5443/upload/72100d426ee0a341f79cb126f62c325d03f117fb/uRaGfJ2iniOhYXiteVewW7UPQKGeU7rWq42Q2qXl/Files.png

I am 23 and I know what a floppy disk is and looks like.

cal0pteryx, these are the files in that user's database, I can not see what the problem is. I told them to delete them all then they use again, without reporting to me again for now. ✏

☭Mike Yellow: u gotta use sqlite to look inside of the database

u can use dbeaver or some other tool if you don't wanna mess around with the cli meme

☭Mike Yellow: gajim tries to create a file for omemo's database, which is named after the user's jid. The jid contains forbidden characters. Gajim cannot create the file

umu: no

orly

so there's no omemo_

or something

The XMPP address of themself they told me has no forbidden character, weird.

How would you know? Did you try to create a file named by the users JID?

how do we know what the jid is

🤔

umu, ☭Mike Yellow does..

wymmmm

Only English characters and dots, “@”. Maybe they copy their address on phone and get a “user@server?omemo……”?

uhhhhhhh

damn

☭Mike Yellow: you could send it to me in private.

idk to me it seems like we're tunnel visioning an issue here

maybe it could be maybe it might be not

umu: that's the process of scoping an issue.

☭Mike Yellow: username seems fine indeed

wymmm

☭Mike Yellow: is this an existing account?

like have they used it b4

> ☭Mike Yellow: is this an existing account? Yes. But I am not sure they is able to speak English or brave enough to speak English.

Gajim for Windows allows to have a “?” in username, is it?

I guess when they was trying to input a “.”, they use SHIFT to turn a “。” to a “.”, but wrongly tapped “/” key and turned it to a “?”.

fuggg

what keyboard layout u use?

With a Chinese input method software.

ooooooooo

that could be it lol

Pay no attention to it anymore. All normal now.

hell yeah let's gettit

☭Mike Yellow: "?" Is forbidden on Windows

cal0pteryx: seems it was those pesky Chinese input methods

Just recently I rewatched a sent email and noticed it has some garbage symbols at the start. Have no idea where did they even come from, possibly pasted.

In particular, that's why good software trims all the user input.

cal0pteryx, pay to attention to it. I will try to test, if something similar happens, I will tell you.

> With a Chinese input method software. There are many kinds of them.

> Yes. But I am not sure they is able to speak English or brave enough to speak English. I have a Chinese friend who speaks English pretty well.

is it the file name? or the table columns? or the sqlite hookups?

> "?" Is forbidden on Windows But not in NTFS. I have lots of files created by NTFS-3G which chkdsk now complains about lol.

ntfs itself doesn't have filename restrictions

windows does ye

(I think)

It still frustrates me to see how users give to files names which don't follow the 8.3 convention (and especially if they use non-ASCII characters for that).

it's over

>I have a Chinese friend who speaks English pretty well. Well... That is a pretty weird institution in China. The government is nationalist but they force students to study English instead of minority nationality languages.

That is why I can speak English too.

Laowais still don't learn Chinese, so knowing English is crucial, how would you make goods for export otherwise? :P

bodqhrohro: "?" is forbidden. No need for further infos

This approach would lead to another issue rising when someone puts `<` into their JID, or so.

> Laowais still don't learn Chinese, so knowing English is crucial, how would you make goods for export otherwise? :P Though Chinese is efficiency, but it is a long pain to learn. Not to mention adding English and ancient Chinese. What a bad education system made for students. Offtopic, let us stop here.

It's a known issue for gajim, some characters don't map. When time comes, this will be changed

Website “gajim.org” seems slow now?

(kind of off topic) but ☭Mike Yellow is the book "three body problem" any good or is there some better Chinese literature I should read?

umu, I am a socialist, I do not like to be addicted to fantasy. I have no any suggestions about it. You should ask Chinese conservatives.

>"three body problem" That is terrible.

thank you my good sir

cal0pteryx, I reproduced that. On Gajim 1.8.1 for Windows, I registered an account with an username which has a “?” inside, when done, then it happens.

Nevermind about that user. Maybe they missed something on purpose, not sincere.

Weird things did happen many in Chinese XMPP users, such as some promote OTR but not OMEMO. Some see “policy violation” then be scared.

if it is filenames can't u escape filenames on windows

with the upper carrot ^

or something

fuggg

why would filenames be written literally like that anyway

umu: please keep profanity out. And yes, it would need to be properly escaped. Gajim already has a method for that. All it needs is somebody to rewrite this properly, including a robust migration. That needs time, and that's one of the reasons it hasn't been done yet

For windows, you guys now recommend using the windows store, is that right?

For installing gajim I mean

I'm asking because my partner was using 1.6.1 and "upgraded" to 1.8.1 using windows store, but boy did it not go smoothly. It seems both versions were installed at the same and it's all "buggy". I'll probably purge everything manually, I guess the db ended up corrupted or something. Which dir should I purge to attempt to restore a functional gajim?

There is no migration which makes sure the old version is uninstalled first, that's correct.. %appdata%/gajim

Yes, windows store is now preferred. But yeah, that's a mess

Sorry about that

how did something get corrupted?

> please keep profanity out What other XMPP clients are out of scope here lol?

> https://im.ebala.net:5821/upload/M0NNWA16Xe0ZHHEOPP1NQQRL/RECORDING_20230920_204120913.m4a bodqhrohro what is this?

fjklp: tytyry

no idea what that means

fjklp: is it supposed to mean anything lol? I've just seen "tyty" above in the chat and spelled it out. (It's a Steins;Gate reference actually).

> how did something get corrupted? I'm not sure. But I sure hear my partner complain a lot about "gajim not working" since I updated. I'll clear appdata/gajim and reinstall to see if it helps. From what I've seen, gajim would stay in "connecting" state unexplainably - but I haven't had time to dig more yet. Thanks cal0pteryx for your reply

Why does my mobile client support otr, but I can't send messages to my friends, he can't see, and the thuderbird client can send messages to me, but my friends send messages to me, I can't see, but I can see my friends send messages to me using otr in the gajim client, why?

Does not sound like a problem with the install nicoco

Maybe supply debug logs so we can see what's wrong

vagrant: there is no OTR support for gajim

also tell your friends not to use thunderbird

MSavoritias (fae,ve): Hello

2023/09/21 18:13:46 (W) gajim.p.pgplegacy (creep.im) No own key id found, cant sign presence

2023/09/21 18:13:46 (W) gajim.c.m.bookmarks (creep.im) Error from vagrant@creep.im: item-not-found - Node not found

chatsecue supports otr and I'm talking in it now

Well, on my windows fresh gajim install, the MAM omemo messages that can't be decrypted have a misleading error msg (in French): "This message was encrypted with OTR" instead of OMEMO (I've never used OTR). vagrant: maybe that's why you mentioned OTR?

chatsecure? its outdated hasnt been updated in years

upgrade to conversations or cheogram or monocles

lovetox: My theory is that the DB or the cache or whatever got corrupted when it was alternatively gajim 1.6.1 and gajim 1.8.1 that were used for a few days (because I didn't notice that 1.6.1 was still there…)

So none of you use mobile apps? Any recommendations? IOS

All of the Android apps based on Conversations (Conversations, Cheogram, blabber.im, Monocles) interact poorly with Gajim when it is also logged in. I end up getting duplicate messages on Gajim.

Ios？

for ios there is monal

Otr support?

no xmpp client supports otr anymore. its obsolete. what you are looking for is omemo

But some friends are using otr's client, and there are some things that otr needs to notify.

Of course I know omemo is better than otr, but I can only use both to keep my job.

well either you tell your friends to upgrade. or you have to use an old client. gajim is not an old client

vagrant, Which operating systems do you use?

i suggest the first one because otr is broken in a lot of ways

Mac

Some of them are still using pidgin

> Mac Use Psi(+). Psi 1.4-635 or earlier is suggested for you. ✏

No, I use gajim and thuderbird, one supports omemo and the other supports otr, but recently something happened in my area, the network seems to be blocked, I can't contact my friends, a bit upset, Thunderbird won't connect, and even when connected, it won't receive messages

Any XMPP-focused user should not use Pidgin. ✏

^

vagrant, Whatever which country you are from, the choices are only two, change the ISP or even the government, or use a proxy service to connect.

Perhaps we use xmmp for different purposes, so the choice will be different. I have used psi before, but it is not very good, and the interface is not good. I think the interface of gajim and thuderbird is more friendly, and I like it better.

Hello

Is using the agent, but since last night until now can not connect, I think the network may be limited, may take half a month to let go of it.

vagrant: https://dev.narayana.im/narayana/gajim-otrplugin

MSavoritias (fae,ve): Thunderbird has always been a great combine to access Internet in general, why would one need anything else? It provides e-mail/RSS/UseNet, it provides numerous IMs. It's all possible to use the builtin browser engine (with ThunderBrowse in XUL times, BrowseInTab nowadays), and run web apps like music player the same way. This in general reduces RAM usage, which is especially crucial for weak hardware.

> Any XMPP-focused user should not use Pidgin. ☭Mike Yellow: but why should a person be a XMPP-focused fanatic?

Prpls for Pidgin are an order of magnitude less hungry than official Electron-based clients (and even Qt-based clients). Not the case for XMPP though, but Gajim is definitely more hungry than Pidgin, because it's written in Python, and uses GTK+3 nowadays, which is significantly less performant on weak hardware than GTK+2 too.

>☭Mike Yellow: but why should a person be a XMPP-focused fanatic? Some people who have political missions do try to gather all people in a same communication platform to unite comrades and attack enemies.

If people have many different communication platfroms they love to belong to, then the political missions are nonsense.

Pff, nice dreams.

XMPP had such an opportunity 15 years ago, now it's all lost.

> All of the Android apps based on Conversations (Conversations, Cheogram, blabber.im, Monocles) interact poorly with Gajim when it is also logged in. I end up getting duplicate messages on Gajim. VA1DER: I have been using Conversations, Cheogram and Gajim for a while and definitely don't have duplicate messages. There is probably something wrong with your server's config, or maybe you're using a really old gajim?

If this is ever legally mandated again, it would rather happen under umbrella of Matrix, or something ad-hoc-defined.

Is there any history events that newbies should know? Our user manual never had a chapter to introduce the history of XMPP.

> If this is ever legally mandated again, it would rather happen under umbrella of Matrix, or something ad-hoc-defined. I can not understand this English sentence.

> Any XMPP-focused user should not use Pidgin. XMPP is open and not limited to a certain client. This idea itself is wrong. ✏

Rosebud: the fanatics of so-called "modern XMPP" stand for an idea there's a ring of clients supporting a certain set of XEPs, the rest of XEPs are outdated and should be burned in ashes.

And you know what, they cannot even agree on the set of XEPs lol. Nothing new.

> > If this is ever legally mandated again, it would rather happen under umbrella of Matrix, or something ad-hoc-defined. > I can not understand this English sentence. neither can I

☭Mike Yellow: there's a EU initiative mandating big market players (AFAIR, only Meta yet in scope of IMs) to provide compatibility APIs with small market players on a request. Technically, this means that any legal entity providing an XMPP service can request from them S2S XMPP support when this comes into action.

Rosebud, Pidgin's XMPP support hasn't updated in 10 years or so. The majority of issues people report with XMPP are a result of someone using Pidgin because many guide for Windows still recommend it. It is a really bad XMPP client, sadly.

Kris: there are XMPP clients that weren't updated for 20 years already, should we break compatibility with them too?

https://vintage2000.org/telegram_for_old_computers

yes please

Kris: why?

You're evil.

because they break xmpp for everyone else

They don't.

🤷‍♂️️

You could tell the same way Jabber users break WhatsApp for everyone else.

lol

Because they're reluctant to just use WhatsApp like every normal person does.

> Kris: there are XMPP clients that weren't updated for 20 years already, should we break compatibility with them too? Definitely, if it holds back from evolving

here comes the strawman

cal0pteryx: do the words "backwards compatibility" tell anything to you?

Windows is successful because it can still run rotten WinAPI apps from 90s.

no its not. nobody that uses windows cares about that. its for gaming

…… I exit this debate.

MSavoritias (fae,ve): this illusion comes from the merge of notions of desktops and workstations (and of following Windows branches).

And this merge made remote work from home accessible.

Otherwise people would need to buy a separate workstation to work remotely.

wut? computing on windows predates home office by decades and it hasn't changed because of home office.

That's the point, and gaming was introduced there only in late 90s, despite MSavoritias (fae,ve)'s claims.

and yes, most companies mandate to use a seperate laptop for work.

bodqhrohro, you are not making sense

Let them buy such laptops themselves lol.

yes, they do

and most labor unions also advocate for it, as using private equippent is effectively a salary cut

Actually, Windows is not that valuable for retro gaming as many decent games were wrapped as Android apps. Even as late as S.T.A.L.K.E.R. CS. I wouldn't even discover this world if my nephew who's stuck to the slatephone almost all the day and ignores the laptop didn't tell me.

Do anyone know how to make a code that is persistent

Kris: are labor unions relevant for self-employed freelancers lol?

bodqhrohro: off topic.

cal0pteryx: Conversations has a special offtopic MUC, why don't you have one?

I don't care. Keep it down.

> I don't care I already got that's your general attitude for everything :P

bodqhrohro: please stop or You will be removed. I'm one of co-directors of Gajim. Understand?

hdudiww: you're not asterix.

And I look like Obelix, I do even have braids at front. Who is a co-director now? :P

I'm Daniel Brötzmann

Here it's a room about Gajim software, bot retro gaming. Stay in the subject

hdudiww: no, you're not

cal0pteryx: yes I'm

>> I don't care > > I already got that's your general attitude for everything :P bodqhrohro: Last warning

cal0pteryx: ``` 21/09/23 16:14:40 (W) gajim.c.settings Unable to determine context for: discover@conference.soprani.ca ```

> vagrant a écrit : https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/c5e3f2d8-6974-4a0e-877d-e0c4d34734a5

omnibus message oops

Any changes or way rename the dbus so allow multiple different instances? The c and p parameters arent separating it completely wimdow wise

gajim --gapplication-app-id name.it.like.you.want

or do you mean the name where gajim offers its dbus interface?

if yes, there is no way to change that

what would be your usecase, why you need 2 different Gajim instances on the same machine running at the same time, and everyone reachable over its own dbus interface?

☝️🤔