Gajim - 2023-07-13

welcome

thank you!!! i left matrix because it's bloatware so it's too heavy

i was referring to conversations and its available on f-droid though

i use that

it has voice/video

i use monocle chat!!

conversations got serious about e2ee for us, now we all use omemo in one-on-one chats

yea omemo is nice

thats all the formalities i can extend on behalf of it though

and the rest of my commentary would make some people very upset in here, so my mouth is now closed :)

i'm kind of new to xmpp, is there anything i should learn?? is it the same as matrix??

xmpp makes a distinction between your contacts and what MUCs you're in

you arent in a "room" with a contact in a private chat

you have a roster

it's old-school IM in many ways

otherwise you got an input box and you chat

all most of us care about

oh cool ok!!

wait i'm still confused, uhmm i can join any room i want?? i guess it's different

you can yeah as long as it isn't invite-only

Learn to use the service discovery dialog on the MUC component of a server to find rooms to join.

yea!! my mobile client has the option of discoverin public rooms

uhmm but is it rooms or groups

you can do it in gajim too but it's not very intuitive

yea i know i use that one

but Thomas was talking about something else

service discovery

> uhmm but is it rooms or groups also why do most users on xmpp have no profile picture?? ↺

we're shy

oh oki!!

oh xmpp seems very complicated

laziness, privacy concern, and lastly sometimes gajim doesn't show them afaik

ok

should i move my family members or friends to xmpp?? i mean it seems easy plus gajim is available for all devices

I'd probably get familiar with it first and consider if they will be comfortable with it

it's semi-reliable

things can and do go wrong

at least it isn't as bloated as matrix :c

also most xmpp clients already look like whatsapp or at least discord

having a familiar interface isn't enough

it also needs feaure parity

this is why i will never be able to get my family on xmpp

> uhmm but is it rooms or groups MUCs

nobody really cares

>also why do most users on xmpp have no profile picture?? some clients are text-only too

> it also needs feaure parity ya theres some things i want too, just gotta get around to them

slow and steady, the xmpp way

Hello. I got Gajim 1.8.0 on Manjaro Linux today after a system update and found maybe a bug. In a 1:1 chat window (for which OMEMO was on), click the shield icon > see new popup window named "Contact Information" with the tab "Encryption (OMEMO)" chosen > in the "Fingerprint for this Device" box click the cogwheel icon > see that nothing happens > move or close the "Contact Information" window > see that a second popup, this one named "Accounts", has been opened but hidden behind the first (i.e."Contact Information"). It seems the second popup is smaller than and directly behind the first and cannot be seen until the first one is moved or closed. Sorry if this has already been reported and being dealt with.

Novice8: that's a known issue on some desktop environments

Okay. (Mine is Xfce.)

When I use OMEMO encryption, what I've observed is that when adding new devices you cannot view messages sent to other clients previously. If I ever wanted to migrate to a different client or if the client stopped working I would not be able to access old messages. I'm unable to find any way to export chats on dino or gajim, but I can on conversations. How would I do something like that and could I import them into different clients?

Also, when I scroll up in gajim, it tells me that I can load more chat history but nothing loads.

omemo is forward-secret unlike matrix which actually somehow grabs the keys from history

they're different security models and yeah by that stretch, history doesnt work for new clients

I understand that but could I just copy the db file from one computer to another?

maybe

I can copy the directories and it works but there doesn't seem to be any way to transfer it between clients

Under accounts dialog you can export chats

I think one of the big things separating Matrix and XMPP in practice is the federation of chatrooms/MUCs themselves. I know there's a XEP for FMUCs but I don't think it's something that's generally implemented.

what do you mean?

If you join a chatroom from another server, that's federation

A chatroom exists on a server in XMPP

In Matrix, it can have addresses on multiple servers. If the original server it's created on is destroyed, the chatroom can go on existing.

sounds like a solution to a problem nobody has

But there are disadvantages to that, mainly wrt metadata

There are for sure disadvantages. IRC servers do something similar. The big ones usually have multiple servers that people connect to, and a channel is spread over all of them.

Which is what gives you your netsplits I think

Besides, the matrix way is resource intensive

Here's the XEP for FMUCs https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0289.html

> Besides, the matrix way is resource intensive Thus makes self-hosting costlier and less appealing

I generally agree

But it's a point of separation all the same - was only pointing it out.

sup lovetox

hoerist.com has an invalid tls certificate

think that should be fixed

wanted to see a little about you

not your software

?

sorry i was just using OMEMO Encryption