Gajim - 2023-07-07

An user told me it can not use Gajim on Microsoft Windows 11, is that normal?

☭Mike Yellow: that's false info

Gajim works fine on win11

Yes. This user told me it can not use dino too, I am sure it is his own problem now. Nevermind. ✏

When I open gajim, it shows the number of unread message count in the left hand pane, but when I click the group, it immediately goes to the end last message without letting me read those undread messages. What's the use of showing the unread message count if it won't let me read those messages and let me scroll to the end if and when I want to?

casper: known issue

> casper: known issue Known issue with which app? Signal?

Gajim

oh, so it is not being worked on?

casper: yes, https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/merge_requests/960 is one step

mjk, thanks

Another thing, when Gajim is minimized to the tray and later, when I want to reopen it from the tray, there's no such option to open it by left/right clicking the tray icon. If I click on the usual Gajim icon to start it, it doesn't start unless I close/quit the tray gajim. And if I quit the tray gajim, it says that I'll still have messages unread. Is this bug also being worked upon, mjk?

casper: no idea, I'm not all-knowing :P

what I do know is there's an ACE option to enable left-clicking on the tray icon

`use_libappindicator` = False

yo wtf i didnt know the attachment button opened up an imgur dialog box for me now

extra clicks are so nice

brb settings

nope its 2023 we dont config stuff

cool

(im not complaining about half the shit gutted from gajim lol the settings were a mess before)

oh it supports multiple file uploads... which half of us are never gonna use i take it

like the workspace feature :)

About workspaces, for me when I switch to another workspace and come back, it takes you out of your current chat and re-opens the chat window. I initially thought the point of the workspace was to make switching between chat windows seamless, but that doesn't work, so for me it ends up being an extra column with a single workspace that never does anything but take up screen real estate. I don't really get what workspace currently do ? Switch between multiple accounts ?

Also, wrote about my XMPP experience in the last year in a lemmy thread about how "google killed xmpp so don't let facebook touch the metaverse"

https://lemmy.ml/comment/1304989

it does not take space, the layout would not change if the little square would be not there

workspaces are a way to organize chats

some people want to separate chats per account or context, like work, or groupchats

XMPP/OMEMO > RocketChat/OTR/Matrix

if you dont have any use for that, simply ignore it

its in essence a power user feature

I really do hate Element. That app is glitchy and barely functional. It's basically Discord, but even bigger blostware to Discord.

I have never tried matrix, I am sunked-costed to my XMPP learning efforts, I don't want to learn a new sets of problem for now.

Regarding the workspace/chatlist, here is an illustration of my problem with it. The space workspace are using could me my chatlist itself

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/yKSxUePr3JTntR2WXUGuJM9ABlZkArkTG26md7fG/9f3383e0-cb53-43ef-b151-89896295cce3.png

its not workspaces that dont allow that design

you basically want a minimal view because you use 5 chats and thats it

but its too much work to maintain 2 designs with different requirements

making sure that everything still works in 2 designs

If only one thing, switching between workspace, should not "exit chat back to chatlist" I would imagine a minimalist chatlist could be scrollable to have arbitraty number of chats The top icon on this column could be a toggle between workspaces and chatlist. The "status" icon at the top, could be right clicked and you choose your workspace in a context menu As for it being a lot of work, I hear ya, it's true

if you mean that no chat is selected in the new workspace

why would it? should gajim select one at random?

why would that be the one you want to read?

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/ODhKojtrntyaH322WpYXhfW1EUd8ECvJjZfWlKsD/efd6fdbd-d758-4fea-822b-b22ae6f2626a.png

I mean, when you have a chat open, you go to another workspace, Then you come back to the first workspace, you chat is now closed and you are back in the chatlist

so what you want is a shortcut to jump back to your last chat?

sounds fair

So gajim should remember the currently opened chat in the current workspace and open that then you go back to that workspace

but thats not what you always want

opening a chat has consequences

If it's not what I want, then I would open the chatlist, but in my case, 99% of the time, I would like to go back to the chat I was in

a chat is marked as read, your contact is notified that you read the chat

the notifications for this chat are gone

and now you thining, fuck i didnt want to have this marked as read, actually i have no time to read this now

but now my contact thinks i have read it

are there plans to fix the read/unread state of chats so that we start a chat at last unread message?

but jumping back to your last chat, with some hotkey, is a nice feature i can get behind

Well, if I had the workspace opened on that chat, then I opened another workspace I had not closed the previous workspace nor the chat explicitely, I would assumed that I "always was in that chat" and it was still marking my messages as read

fjklp: there is a merge request already. But it needs more work and priorities are different atm

thanks

shodan, you think we mark chats as read, even though you can not see them, this would make no sense

and of course we dont do this

a workspace cannot be closed

it cannot be openend

And in my case, to get the view as I illustrated above I would create one workspace with each one chat in it, and basically never use the chatlist itself, I would be using the workspace list as a chatlist

you can only switch to another chat, and that other chat might be in a different workspace, then you can click to show chats in that workspace

I would be fine with my presence marking all messages as seen as soon as they are on screen, whatever the action on my part

yeah, you are trying to make gajim smaller, taking less space

but no, workspaces are not chats

> you can only switch to another chat, and that other chat might be in a different workspace, then you can click to show chats in that workspace That is my UI problem, I am opening and closing the chatlist every time I change interlocutor

every single time

its nota problem with workspaces

you dont need to use workspaces

shodan: keep the chatlist open and use a singe workspace

you want gajim smaller, and think you can hide the chatlist and use workspaces to switch chat

This is all the space I have for gajim When the chatlist is open, I cannot see the chat

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/cH0Asn3f9fcwWzj2KZfNA6uvWxKvtwgnWJMpZSiv/b88c479b-c420-4ed8-bb48-acb2cdce09e0.png

Other than that, this size works great as an IM client

Yeah, i doubt that, i rather think, you want to not give Gajim more place

Yeah sorry, running gajim with all features in a 300x300 window is not a goal of our development

shodan: you can resize thr chatlist..

i would recommend you find a way, to give the application more space

Unfortunately, even at minimum size, it is still too much

shodan: Ctrl+R opens/closes chat list

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/JdsCsxzjY0l5XRXb9POqecGP1BmHfFn0TauqekBI/d5716873-70b4-49ac-999e-e37953b2e7b7.png

shodan: we developed gajim so it works on half a 1920px width, i.e. half a hull hd monitor's size. Everything below that is not intended usage

We already added a feature to hide the chatlist for people wotg width restrictions. And now there is you, using some 300x300 monitor constraint. That simply not what we develop against

Next, somebody with a smart phone screen portait mode comes along ;)

I bet that already happened :)

Sure :)

I understand, it is just sooo close to working In fact, it does work great, just for that one nit pick Here is my full "comms" monitor if you are curious

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/sgVF9PkoDP4EGMlzbHyc2PVPQv0luXLSqGPq68W9/1a77a258-877c-41b1-965a-fe308cc6ea4c.png

And the setup as a whole

https://chat.domn.net:5443/upload/500b07a7efeff7dd5a382d5bf3fa0d30cec686c6/jmAPulvvdd3lycJglJC6ZUnoYokMiFx6P5XaVm96/fd2f69b3-8dd5-46d4-bd7c-5e6c281ffdfc.png

windows user detected, opinion dismissed

i will think about how we can allow the chat list to be even smaller

we probably would need to move notifications into the avatar or something

come on, you have 4 monitors

cool setup

5 , one is turned off

if you don't mind saying, what kind of mouse and what is that lit up button thingy below the center monitor

Gajim could be there in full screen :D

lol

Erm... I can't take your request seriously anymore. Sorry

now that you say that, one does wonder if we've been trolled

if he presses the button, 3 extra monitors come down from the ceiling

@fjklp I swear I use linux on the backend ! But I cannot give up, everything/ditto/greenshot/fancyzones/(and my stuff just working when I need it)

mouse is mx 3 master, the button thing is a streamdeck (I don't use it much, don't like their software)

Anyway, like I said, it does work, it's just annoying to open/close the chatlist every time I switch. But I spend 90% of my time in just one chat of all my friends, only private messages require me to switch

Also, from my initial message I would like to have more emphasis on the other elements that I find XMPP lags behind in general reliably working notification (apple) Opengraph previews Message reaction/replies/retractions audio and video calls, personnal and conference, seamless experience make openGPG user friendly to use (smartcard private keys? proper two factor E2E ?) Do something innovative with presence (and reliable)

> make openGPG user friendly to use (smartcard private keys? proper two factor E2E ?) OMEMO is user friendly

shodan: shouldn't Dino + libmobil work better for your set up / requirements?

> Message reaction/replies/retractions We are working on that, it will land in one of the next versions

@lissine yes it is, however it does break server side history, which my users prefer over forward secrecy. So opengpg would be a better fit, especially if they can keep their decryption certificates on a removable security device such as a PKCS#11 smartcard or modern equivalent

@meson I have not heard of that before, My understanding is that on PC the apps just maintain the connection On android this works too without needing to use google GCM service push notification but on apple, long connections get terminated and you have to use apple apns for push notification, which require an API key and your server on the apple app store I'm using siskin for apple users, apparently I could use the siskin relay, if I changed my backend from ejabberd to "tigase" but I had not the fortitude to uproot everything again

especially not for apple users !

@lovetox that's great ! I think for normal users this is what they miss the most. Me, I actually want opengraph the most because bare URL's are so unappetizing

if using siskin, you should use tigase server or prosody + push notifications community modules or snikket

These servers have working push notifications with siskin

@lissine ok, but, that's so much work, I really wish server remained interoperable making ejabberd was already hitting my head to a brick wall for a whole weekend, I have no the energy to do it again

It does feel silly to message them on facebook "hey, I sent you something in xmpp that is too naughty for facebook"

well, monal has working push notifications with all servers, but a/v calls are still work in progress

@lissine thanks I'll tell the users to give it a try, I don't have apple products, I just asked them to search their app store and pick the most popular. It's worth a shot !

beware there are no audio/video calls for the moment

That's fine I have never made one of those work on xmpp. I thought that was more of a aspirational feature than something people actually use ?

They're currently broken on gajim, but work (mostly) fine on other clients

Dino has some issues sometimes

> workspaces are a way to organize chats for the record i actually do use it to separate my MUCs from everything else, but i have other things to say about that kind of organisation (like how other clients e.g. conversations handle mucs). nothing really helpful to say at the moment though, but basically i had to find a use for it rather than it solving a problem in the first place for me

> beware there are no audio/video calls for the moment the code for old-style voice/video got completely gutted? makes sense since it seemed unmaintained for a while :D ✏