Gajim - 2019-10-24

  1. SaltyBones "This unable to join group chat." spam is annoying.
  2. SaltyBones What's the roadmap anyway? When is the next release?
  3. wurstsalat SaltyBones‎ which spam?
  4. wurstsalat do you have a screenshot?
  5. SaltyBones this one
  6. wurstsalat SaltyBones: I thought you were using master
  7. bot Daniel Brötzmann updated a merge request for _gajim/master_ < >: WIP: Remove usage of ConfirmationDialogDoubleRadio
  8. stp Hello again, on my roster for my & I do not see myself but on the roster for my I do. Why is that?
  9. saltybones wurstsalat: No, not yet. Just setting it up. Which reminds me..
  10. saltybones how did our discussion that I could not install plugins end?
  11. wurstsalat saltybones, there is a button to install/update plugins if you're in the plugin installer tab. if you're using plugins from git, you might as well just symlink that repo
  12. wurstsalat stp, I don't know why, but I'd be interested as well
  13. stp wurstsalat‎, :-) to be clear it's nothing new, it has been that way since forever. All I know is that I don't want to see myself in the roster.
  14. wurstsalat ah, I do want to see myself
  15. wurstsalat (to be able to exchange messages between PC/mobile)
  16. saltybones wurstsalat: can we talk about this in more detail later? because i did *some* symlinking and now the plug-in is *available* for install but not installed.
  17. wurstsalat of course!
  18. wurstsalat > ‎[10:51:42] ‎SaltyBones‎: What's the roadmap anyway? When is the next release? Part of the roadmap is listed here:
  19. pep. wurstsalat, this is the only valid answer to "roadmap". Except maybe 2.0 for gajim
  20. wurstsalat ah, that green fits good for gajim :D
  21. lovetox stp look into advanced config editor
  22. lovetox for something like show_self_contact
  23. lovetox or something similar
  24. UsL did I forget tab switching in Gajim or am I mixing up clients? I want to switch to the next acitivated tab (event) directly. ctrl+pgup/pgdwn, ctrl+tab/shift+tab, and alt+←/→ all goes next in row.
  25. Zash alt-a perhaps?
  26. UsL the goggles do nothing
  27. Zash nothing works, anywhere
  28. UsL oh, wait.. I get it. It is ctrl+pgup/pgdwn if I get a private message. It's not for MUC rooms
  29. lovetox UsL, help -> shortcuts
  30. UsL that landed me on gitlab saying this project has no wiki pages.
  31. wurstsalat UsL which gajim version are you using?
  32. UsL *cough* stale...
  33. wurstsalat Ctrl+Tab should switch to the next tab with unread events
  34. UsL 0.16.1 I belive
  35. UsL no, 16.6
  36. UsL there are no backports for me either.
  37. wurstsalat so you are saying Ctrl+Tab does not switch to the next unread event?
  38. UsL not for muc room events, no
  39. wurstsalat ah, there we go
  40. wurstsalat
  41. UsL indeed.
  42. UsL I'll wait for next dist upgrade.. : )
  43. stp lovetox, thanks! i just did that but found nothing regarding that. I also guess that would be a global setting then but currently it's not universal for all my accounts, for some it shows myself, for others not.
  44. lovetox what version stp?
  45. stp 1.1.92 (I used Gajim-Portable-Master-64bit-2019-10-12.exe to install)
  46. lovetox you cant remove it
  47. lovetox dont know why it does not show for other accs
  48. lovetox but its supposed to show for every account
  49. lovetox but yeah i should add the option again to not show it
  50. stp I just thought about the differences between the accounts I found what triggers it. If an account is only just via Gajim it does not show itself in the roster. Once an account is online in more than one client (I just tried additionally connecting via Conversations) the entry for the account itself disappears.
  51. stp ...between the accounts *and* I found what triggers it....
  52. stp ....If an account is only *online* just via Gajim
  53. stp Oh no, I went ahead to fast. Forget that!
  54. stp I looked at the wrong account :-(
  55. wurstsalat maybe different server software?
  56. wurstsalat saltybones, did you find why you can't seem to install plugins?
  57. bot Daniel Brötzmann closed an issue in _gajim_ < >: #9863: < KeyError: 'could not find foreign type Surface' when starting Gajim >
  58. bot Daniel Brötzmann closed an issue in _gajim_ < >: #9864: < SystemError: gi.FunctionInfo(init) returned NULL without setting an error >
  59. bot Daniel Brötzmann modified an issue in _gajim_ < >: #9868: < g-io-error-quark: Время ожидания истекло (24) (Empty reply) >
  60. SaltyBones wurstsalat, nope
  61. SaltyBones so here is what I did
  62. SaltyBones I made a config directory and started with -c ../config
  63. SaltyBones In that config directory I replaced the plugins.testprofile (I also launched with -p testprofile) with a link to ../gajim-plugins.
  64. SaltyBones When I check the plugin configuration now there are a bunch of plugins installed.
  65. SaltyBones But omemo is not installed and somehow checking the box and clicking the button does nothing.
  66. wurstsalat so when you navigate to plugins.testprofile, do you see the symlink to the omemo plugin?
  67. SaltyBones Well, the folder is linked but yeah omemo is in that folder...
  68. wurstsalat which version?
  69. wurstsalat and: is it still a link?
  70. SaltyBones lrwxrwxrwx 1 simon simon 17 Oct 23 00:29 plugins.testprofile -> ../gajim-plugins/
  71. SaltyBones therein is a omemo folder with a manifest saying version: 2.6.66
  72. SaltyBones master branch
  73. wurstsalat right
  74. wurstsalat and it is not listed in the "installed" tab? then you should probably start looking at logs during startup
  75. wurstsalat only omemo or are there others as well?
  76. lovetox if i go by your guide
  77. lovetox you install no dependency whatsoever for plugins
  78. lovetox so its not suprising that some of them dont work
  79. SaltyBones lovetox, yeah, that's why the guide is a wip
  80. SaltyBones and i am currently trying to find something in the logs
  81. SaltyBones got any advice how to comb through them?
  82. SaltyBones is there some way to link it such that they are available for install but not automatically installed?
  83. SaltyBones that way any errors during installation should be shown like normal, right?
  84. wurstsalat search for (E) gajim.plugin_system
  85. wurstsalat errors with gajim.plugin_system
  86. wurstsalat but yes, for omemo in particular, there are some dependencies to be installed
  87. SaltyBones so is there any place where I could dump the plugins so they would be installable but not automatically installed?
  88. lovetox no
  89. lovetox there is no "install", everything in the plugin folder is loaded at startup
  90. SaltyBones and the install button is technically a download button?
  91. lovetox yes
  92. SaltyBones yeah, okay
  93. SaltyBones btw is there some pager type of thing to view the logs or do you guys use grep for that?
  94. lovetox i scroll through it
  95. lovetox and use the search functionality of my text editor :)
  96. Zash `clix archive --i`
  97. Zash `clix archive -i`
  98. lovetox you can always filter logs down to a specific module you want to watch
  99. Zash wait logs like debug logs?
  100. lovetox for example, gajim.plugin_system=DEBUG
  101. Zash try piping them to lnav if you want a fancy log browser?
  102. SaltyBones yeah, a search functionality would probably do most of what I want...just gotta pipe it to a file or something
  103. SaltyBones lnav?
  104. SaltyBones I'll take a look.
  105. Zash
  106. wurstsalat weird.. Zash: I'm missing messages from you in this MUC and in XSF MUC as well. I see them in conversations, but not in gajim. even restarted gajim
  107. SaltyBones Zash, hm...out of the box it seems to be very unhappy with a pipe from gajim :)
  108. Zash Heh. Yeah the pipe thing isn't the most reliable in my experience. Dump to a file and open that should work tho
  109. wurstsalat wat? XML console displays Zash's message, but not in the ConversationTextview
  110. Zash wat
  111. wurstsalat ```
  112. SaltyBones censorship!
  113. SaltyBones your gajim is controlling what you read!
  114. wurstsalat Zash, do you read?
  115. Zash wurstsalat: SYN 1. ACK?
  116. Zash or wait, how2tcp
  117. lovetox hm
  118. lovetox thats the Zash ignore mode, i hardcoded it
  119. lovetox na joke, im looking into it right now
  120. Zash all sorts of id attributes, so not that
  121. lovetox oh Zashs client is misbehaving
  122. lovetox it sends messages with chatstate inactive
  123. lovetox <message xml:lang='en' to='' from='' type='groupchat' id='1b2b53a8596a4f81bfb1db9de11ad1b1'><origin-id xmlns='urn:xmpp:sid:0' id='1b2b53a8596a4f81bfb1db9de11ad1b1'/><inactive xmlns=' 0' id='007340ff-fa26-49d8-80be-74f705338385' by=''/><body>or wait, how2tcp</body></message>
  124. Zash poezio!!!!
  125. lovetox please deactivate chatstates Zash, so we can talk to you again
  126. wurstsalat Now I miss a search bar in the XML console
  127. lovetox we had a search bar?
  128. lovetox ah yeah we need this
  129. lovetox but hard to filter a textview
  130. Zash Can you hear me now?
  131. SaltyBones what does a chatstate inactive do?
  132. lovetox yeees
  133. wurstsalat Zash, yes
  134. Zash I did /show available
  135. lovetox SaltyBones, it shows that you are inactive
  136. lovetox which does not make sense if you just sent a message in the same stanza
  137. Zash Maybe I became inactive just as I pressed Enter? :)
  138. SaltyBones hm...but inactive is not a status, is it?
  139. lovetox its a chatstate
  140. lovetox
  141. SaltyBones right...didn't know there was anything but "typing"
  142. Zash That and active would be the main ones
  143. SaltyBones lovetox, technically that XEP says "SHOULD NOT" ...I'm not user what the reason is on poezio's side but it seems if it's a SHOULD NOT gajim should display the messages, right?
  144. SaltyBones s/user/sure/
  145. Zash lovetox: has Gajim recently started enforcing that? Or, why hasn't this been noticed before?
  146. lovetox yes a few days ago i thought, why process the message further if i find a non-active chatstate
  147. lovetox hm no SaltyBones if that would be the case then it would not make much sense to use this keyword
  148. lovetox should not means i dont have to expect any client doing this
  149. Zash Does it?
  150. lovetox for me it does :D
  151. lovetox otherwise it would be useless
  152. Zash 4. SHOULD NOT This phrase, or the phrase "NOT RECOMMENDED" mean that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances when the particular behavior is acceptable or even useful, but the full implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed before implementing any behavior described with this label.
  153. Zash Ergo, you need to handle it.
  154. SaltyBones yup
  155. Zash Not to be confused with SHALL 1. MUST This word, or the terms "REQUIRED" or "SHALL", mean that the definition is an absolute requirement of the specification.
  156. SaltyBones Well, poezio is probably still violating the spec here, at least I cannot think of any valid reasons to send this combination and SHOULD basically means MUST IF YOU CAN.
  157. SaltyBones But then again whoever wrote the spec thought there might be a reason so maybe I'm missing something. :)
  158. Zash Things specified as SHOLUD are things you MUST expect.
  159. mathieui SaltyBones, yes, this is a bug
  160. Zash Or something
  161. mathieui but messages should be displayed nonetheless
  162. SaltyBones Zash, you're a poet! :)
  163. SaltyBones mathieui, totally agree
  164. lovetox no i dont see any obligation to implement not recommended behaviour
  165. Zash lovetox: it's about what others might implement
  166. lovetox a client is free to do this, maybe if it has its own eco system
  167. Zash these terms are there for interopability
  168. lovetox and thats fine, but a client can not expect that other clients implement not recommended behavior
  169. Zash so that you can know what to expect others to send you
  170. SaltyBones yes it can
  171. SaltyBones a client can expect other clients to follow the spec
  172. SaltyBones and the spec says the messages are fine
  173. Zash weird, but fine
  174. wurstsalat (don't see mathieui as well)
  175. lovetox maybe in theory, but in current XMPP you can expect that clients implment SHOULD and MUST
  176. lovetox everything else is chance
  177. SaltyBones lovetox, well, I am with zas then...if they SHOULD NOT you still MUST accept ;)
  178. lovetox im not bouncing the message
  179. lovetox a user cant be inactive and send a message
  180. lovetox so one of them is a lie
  181. lovetox i choose to value the chatstate
  182. lovetox to not confuse my users with inactive contacts sending them messages
  183. SaltyBones ok this is ridiculous
  184. SaltyBones arguments not withstanding I'm sure you agree that messages disappearing is the worst thing that can happen, right?
  185. SaltyBones I mean, I agree that this is a mess and mathieu already said it was a bug in poezio but dropping messages is just too big a No-No
  186. lovetox i drop messages for less
  187. lovetox you basically say, i have to ignore invalid stuff as long as it contains a body
  188. SaltyBones nah, sorry
  189. Zash Wouldn't it be saner to ignore the chat state instead of the body?
  190. SaltyBones that's not at all what I wanted to say
  191. lovetox probably Zash, i agree message is more valuable
  192. lovetox but on the other hand, we would have never discovered that bug then
  193. lovetox :D
  194. SaltyBones :)
  195. lovetox maybe im following to much the philosophy
  196. lovetox fail hard on any kind of error
  197. SaltyBones I think you could fail hard here but it would also have to be loud.
  198. SaltyBones Like a message "Zash is sending garbage again!" :)
  199. lovetox i agree, i didnt fail hard here
  200. Zash Such garbage. Very smell. Ew.
  201. lovetox because to be honest, i really didnt exepect to see this
  202. Zash Nobody expects the spanish inactive chat state!
  203. SaltyBones x)
  204. lovetox :D
  205. SaltyBones Different gajim seems to have shed its plugin installer..
  206. pep. Yeah, dropping messages is also a big no-no for me
  207. SaltyBones It's possible I never had one...
  208. SaltyBones but this is the Ubuntu default installation.
  209. wurstsalat SaltyBones, you're a bit cryptic here. you said you symlinked the plugin repo. there have to be all plugins. plugin_installer is just another plugin
  210. SaltyBones wurstsalat, sorry, different installation ;)
  211. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 2 commits to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < >:
  212. lovetox there because i value the input of my poezio friends
  213. pep. lovetox, :P
  214. Zash oh no, our secret backchannel
  215. pep. I do think that's weird though and I'm not sure we should send that chatstate
  216. wurstsalat SaltyBones, there should be a plugininstaller package for gajim in ubuntu
  217. wurstsalat `gajim-plugininstaller`
  218. SaltyBones're right. That really shouldn't be a separate package. :)
  219. lovetox it should
  220. lovetox because debian wants to decide it self what it packages or not
  221. lovetox and it has many plugins in their distro repo
  222. SaltyBones Oh, you mean they want to exclude the plugin manager and make you install the plugins with apt?
  223. lovetox so if you are not after some obsucre plugin, you will find it on apt
  224. SaltyBones Alright, fair enough.
  225. lovetox yes, they have like 10 plugins available via apt
  226. lovetox the most used ones anyway
  227. wurstsalat SaltyBones, it's helping a lot with dependencies to have these as packages
  228. SaltyBones wurstsalat, also a good point
  229. wurstsalat a good package manager should display these as optional to gajim
  230. lovetox they have some even recommended i think
  231. SaltyBones I haven't paid attention to apt recommendations since 1734 :p
  232. lovetox like omemo
  233. lovetox SaltyBones, if its recommended it gets installed by default
  234. SaltyBones anyway..different question...the wicd it broken?
  235. lovetox only optional get not installed i think
  236. lovetox some user contributed this a long time ago
  237. SaltyBones lovetox, that would explain why I never noticed that I didn't have a plugin-manager. Because omemo was installed anyway.
  238. lovetox i dont think many people use that network manager
  239. SaltyBones Yeah, I just wanted to feed it its dependencies for the build guide but I don't think it works at all. It's looking for parts of gajim that are not there...
  240. lovetox then it will not make it into gajim 1.2
  241. SaltyBones lovetox, hamster want dbus_support as well...the folder is still there but it's not in the is that intentional?
  242. SaltyBones or let's say there is some dbus folder still there ;)
  243. SaltyBones
  244. lovetox this will also not make it
  245. wurstsalat SaltyBones, there are (I think two) plugins which require dbus functionalities which have been rewritten in gajim master
  246. lovetox basically in beta developers have time to fix their plugins
  247. lovetox if they dont then they are simply removed in the 1.2 plugin branch
  248. lovetox ok have to go
  249. lovetox night
  250. SaltyBones thanks, have a good night! :)
  251. SaltyBones man this is all so difficult to figure out :)
  252. SaltyBones wurstsalat, clickable nicknames apparently fails because the config option gc_nicknames_colors has disappeared....
  253. wurstsalat yes, there have been gc_nicknames_colors, but they are now colored via XEP-0392
  254. SaltyBones Anyway...I'll just add the dependencies for omemo and that'll have to do. :p
  255. wurstsalat SaltyBones, just ask ;)
  256. SaltyBones wurstsalat, you know I will ;D
  257. pep. hmm, does it mean gajim will now keep poezio users that send that as composing forever?
  258. pep. Or is there a timeout or sth?
  259. SaltyBones pep., looking at the code it should be fine
  260. pep. k
  261. SaltyBones anyway it's better than losing messages :)
  262. SaltyBones and I assume mathieui will fix it on the poezio side
  263. pep. true