Gajim - 2019-08-25


  1. concerto lovetox: heh, so I'm not alone with that question ^ 😄
  2. tom concerto, which one?
  3. lovetox tom, you cant just patch another graphical toolkit
  4. lovetox tells me you never did anything remotely :)
  5. lovetox also in what way does Gajim look like a phone app
  6. lovetox because it has a button with 3 lines as symbol? then its suddenly a phone app?
  7. lovetox because only phone apps are allowed to have a button with 3 lines ?
  8. concerto lovetox: hamburger menus are for when you have little screen space...given more space, regular menus are better, because they tell you without opening them what they contain.
  9. lovetox what is a reular menu?
  10. lovetox what is a regular menu?
  11. lovetox there are 17 actions behind that menu
  12. lovetox you want 17 buttons?
  13. lovetox im sure there are actions you never used once, but you still want to see a button for it 100% of the time when you look at Gajim?
  14. concerto Regular menu = the one with text instead of an icon. Although to be honest I prefer icons...more immediately informative than text, when designed well.
  15. lovetox please tell me what action from that menu you use every day
  16. concerto lovetox: I think replace the hamburger with ~5 buttons, each of which opens a menu.
  17. concerto It's not about what one uses every day...it's about being able to discover things quickly when you do want them.
  18. lovetox no thats not my philosophy
  19. lovetox my philosophy is, the things you use every day, are the things you see every day
  20. concerto And minimal wading through sub-menus when there's enough screen space to reduce them.
  21. lovetox its not a problem to open a submenu, if i need the action one time a month
  22. lovetox its a problem that i have less space to write or read my messages, because of buttons i never use
  23. lovetox but please if you find a action that you use *all the time* and its really cumbersome to browse to the submenu, please tell me then we can look how its easier reachable
  24. pep. tom: it feels to me like you're tackling this the wrong way.. Maybe you should start porting gajim to whatever toolkit you like and then ask for pointers if you're stuck. Not try to make people feel bad about using gtk3, you're only gonna get "stfu" answers imo :)
  25. concerto lovetox: If something is not easy to discover, or to reach again once you have discovered it, I find that average folks tend to not use it at all.
  26. concerto And geek users tend to be like 'I know I saw it before...where was it again'?
  27. concerto And geek users tend to be like 'I know I saw it before...where was it again?'
  28. lovetox there is no option in this menu "reuglar" folk have to use, you can use Gajim perfectly fine without ever knowing that these action exists
  29. concerto You _can_, but isn't the whole point of an interface to show, with minimal work, what a program can do?
  30. lovetox thats not possible if you reach a certain amount of functionality
  31. lovetox my philsophy is, having default 90% people can live with
  32. lovetox and the rest of the 10% can manage to search for the switches
  33. concerto Hm...
  34. lovetox so i ask again, what about the current defaults makes you use this menu?
  35. lovetox im open to improve the UX if it makes sense for most people, but i will not put buttons in the chat control *just* so people know functionality exists
  36. lovetox maybe we can also remove entrys from that menu
  37. lovetox and place it at some other place
  38. lovetox for example an idea for the groupchat config menu would be to only show it if someone is owner of a channel
  39. lovetox maybe we can add one more button beside the message input
  40. lovetox but not sure what actions we should put there
  41. concerto lovetox: you know what would be awesome? Configurable interface a la Firefox ;)
  42. concerto lovetox: you know what would be awesome? User-configurable interface a la Firefox ;)
  43. concerto defaults can be whatever you fancy best for non-geeks
  44. lovetox of course dream on :)
  45. lovetox sometimes i think you all forget its just a chat application
  46. lovetox like if this makes it so a message reaches my contact it has already done 99% of its job :)
  47. concerto I come from Emacs...which is pretty much based around this idea. (except non-geeks rarely if ever use it, even though the default config tries to target them)
  48. Zash Where would I find the code for handling MUC avatars?
  49. lovetox Zash, in vcard_avatars.py
  50. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *a3e63057* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/a3e63057ece9a6e12f3e072adda0b9f010ddab85 > Avatar: Check storage before vcard request
  51. lovetox why Zash?
  52. Zash lovetox, I'm curious how hard it would be to make it use a the disco#info and status code method
  53. lovetox i can add that, is the patch for the module already live?
  54. Zash No, I haven't pushed the changes yet but I deployed the modded version to conference.prosody.im to test
  55. lovetox yeah give me a minute i look into it how hard it is
  56. lovetox but its still stored in vcard ?
  57. lovetox not in some pep node like you said last time
  58. Zash Still a vcard, it's only the way it communicates the hash that is different
  59. lovetox hm ok, and how do i recognize that you support that?
  60. lovetox what if i discover a disco info without avatar hash
  61. lovetox does that mean the muc deleted its avatar?
  62. lovetox Zash ^
  63. lovetox i would need some feature that indicates that a missing avatar hash actually means something
  64. lovetox hm or the hash field is always there, just empty if no avatar is set
  65. Zash Yeah, it will be a field without `<value>`
  66. Zash Currently it looks like this: http://paste.debian.net/1097297/
  67. lovetox ok nice, i add this
  68. Zash Almost like https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html
  69. lovetox i push this in the evening
  70. Zash Cool
  71. Zash I'm trying to figure out what happened to that protoxep
  72. Zash > Link Mauve queries the status of the MUC Avatars proto-XEP (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html); Kev notes that it had three +1s, and Sam vetoed on-list.
  73. Link Mauve Note that my version didn’t have any PubSub thing in it, edhelas added that himself.
  74. Link Mauve I would most likely go back to MUC only.
  75. Zash <vCard> in <{pubsub}configure> eh
  76. Link Mauve I agree with the veto btw.
  77. Link Mauve Zash, yeah, I highly disagree with that.
  78. Link Mauve So the following version adding PEP support on MUC would be my favourite.
  79. Zash Whatever happened with that?
  80. Zash Incremental step towards MIX :)
  81. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0407.html#avatar
  82. marc_ Does Gajim support BTBV?
  83. wurstsalat marc_, no, not yet
  84. marc_ Too bad
  85. Zash I wish for a way to group bookmarks somehow.
  86. Zash I renamed my XMPP-related bookmarks to include "XMPP" as prefix, eg "XMPP Gajim"
  87. marc_ Writing to a Groupchat with wrong / outdated keys is the biggest problem in my Jabber community at the moment
  88. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/m67VoFB9NogVR963/Screenshot_2019-08-25_17-22-08.png
  89. Zash The little arrows at each end of the tab row, they only move to the next/prev tab instead of scroll the whole tab bar. Is this controlled by GTK or Gajim?
  90. wurstsalat Zash, https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8632
  91. wurstsalat marc_, yes, many people want this feature, but developers time is precious
  92. wurstsalat Zash, do you mean to group bookmarks in this sense? https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8739
  93. Zash wurstsalat: Something like that, yes.
  94. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/3F5gczJWDDt904Jw/Screenshot_2019-08-25_17-31-04.png
  95. Zash Converse.js lists joined rooms in alphabetic order, so I put "XMPP" first in a bunch of XMPP-related boomark names to get them grouped
  96. Zash I'm not sure what the best solution is, but you see the problem?
  97. wurstsalat definitively!
  98. Zash Grouping or tagging bookmarks the way you can with contacts in the roster might be nice
  99. wurstsalat at leat pinning your favorites to the top is a thing planned for the future
  100. Zash Nice
  101. wurstsalat something like this (but this screenshot is pretty old) https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/uploads/cac4d9bc638fcfd3d53c3ea266befcde/38f50ad9-743a-491e-9b62-cf329ccc7c3b.png
  102. Zash Having that info tie into CSI would be nice. I started on a module that lets you select MUCs with lower priority, so eg your phone doesn't get woken up constantly by noicy public channels
  103. wurstsalat nice idea as well
  104. meaz When you click on ctrl + enter in gajim, is it a breakline that is added in the stanza?
  105. Zash Let's Try
  106. meaz I get <body>Let's Try</body>
  107. Zash What did you expect?
  108. meaz Let's \n Try
  109. Zash Why?
  110. meaz I'm using a bot (hubot-respond): https://github.com/Ajnasz/hubot-respond/issues/7
  111. meaz but the bot doesn't work well when I use ctrl+enter in my message. SO I'm wondering how it could catch this breakline
  112. Zash Oct Dec Hex Char 012 10 0A LF '\n' (new line)
  113. Zash You don't need to escape newlines in XML
  114. meaz ok thanks Zash
  115. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _python-nbxmpp_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp >: *10fe8109* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/python-nbxmpp/commit/10fe8109cf6681b58824ccbe9abf686d565213c8 > DiscoInfo: Add new methods - Make get_field_value public - Add has_field()
  116. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 2 commits to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *3e1c4791* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/3e1c47913b1196d8405a68f1defb611ab0b74e7f > StartChat: Dont create default avatar for new JID rows *3e020ef4* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/3e020ef456cdf57447ef58b69d0f8981dff39e9c > Avatar: Support avatar sha via disco info in MUCs
  117. lovetox Zash ^
  118. lovetox you have to update nbxmpp too
  119. lovetox and to really test this you should disable sending presence broadcasts, otherwise you will not know if Gajim picks up on the disco info or presence broadcast
  120. Zash sqlite3.InterfaceError: Error binding parameter 0 - probably unsupported type.
  121. lovetox is there a bigger traceback?
  122. Zash Traceback (most recent call last): https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/b110903a-8ba7-4231-a79f-613c78da3b39
  123. Zash Repeated a few times
  124. lovetox ah damn, one moment
  125. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 2 commits to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *a1e2041e* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/a1e2041e75f32b361a40c052243580709cfec578 > Logger: Pass args in correct order *e9811609* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/e9811609d8945d5199c1b452285e16e3b6184e7d > Avatar: Pass JID as string
  126. lovetox Zash, try now
  127. Zash lovetox, works!
  128. lovetox great
  129. Zash Changing it too
  130. lovetox Zash, its important that you dont remove the sha field if no avatar is set
  131. lovetox at least for now when we have no XEP
  132. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/_EjQRD8pb2qUHmGU/Screenshot_2019-08-25_22-42-06.png
  133. lovetox because no sha field i cant process this now as "no avatar" because no server implements the disco info sha field
  134. lovetox so i have to ignore it
  135. lovetox otherwise i would unset the avatar on every disco
  136. lovetox and we should move the XEP forward
  137. lovetox Link Mauve, ^
  138. Zash No way to clear an avatar from Gajim?
  139. lovetox Zash delete cache.db
  140. Zash I mean, remove it from the server
  141. lovetox ah no not yet
  142. lovetox but good point i should add this to my to do list
  143. Zash It seems to deal with rooms on the same server that doesn't have an avatar at least
  144. Zash I'm guessing there's some flag that can be set on the open file dialog to add a "clear" option, I think I've seen that
  145. lovetox no, if you dont supply a filename gajim will just do nothing
  146. lovetox no to make this correct, it has to be another dialog
  147. lovetox where you add a photo then get a preview
  148. lovetox then decide to upload
  149. lovetox this right now was just a fast solution when the feature came out
  150. Zash I'm pretty sure I've seen a file open dialog that had a "clear" button in it
  151. Zash But where?
  152. marc_ Somebody working on BTBV? Otherwise, maybe I will try to implement it
  153. lovetox marc_, btbv is non trivial
  154. lovetox because with omemo you can only query keys when a message is sent
  155. lovetox you have to abort sending the message, download keys, trust them, then resend the message
  156. marc_ Aborting is non-trivial?
  157. lovetox no thats trivial
  158. lovetox but everything after seems tricky
  159. lovetox but have a go at it :)
  160. marc_ But this would mean OMEMO by default like in C, right?
  161. lovetox btbv has nothing to do with OMEMO by default
  162. marc_ In MUC?
  163. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/UYhYjdiuHE1dSuQw/image.png
  164. Zash From Empathy
  165. lovetox marc_, dont understand your question
  166. lovetox what has MUC to do with it
  167. pep. marc_, BTBV is only accepting keys by default, it's not OMEMO by default :)
  168. marc_ Yes, true.. brainfart