Gajim - 2018-07-29


  1. laudela Bonjour ! Gajim.org seems to he down
  2. lovetox yes
  3. Daniel dev.gajim.org down = no open issues
  4. lovetox :D
  5. debacle is the git repo mirrored somewhere? (need gajim-plugins right now)
  6. lovetox no
  7. lovetox server is back debacle
  8. debacle damned, you spoiled my excuse not to work :~)
  9. debacle thx!
  10. Link Mauve debacle, fyi, the next time you’ll update slixmpp in Debian, it won’t be fixed yet but we’ll be able to see the amount of unexpected time drift in the error stanza.
  11. Link Mauve https://git.louiz.org/slixmpp/commit/?id=59d4420
  12. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/0cbe8044-a6f0-4c95-a1fa-cd1d2678b207
  13. debacle Link Mauve, cool, thanks!
  14. bot Yann Leboulanger pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _website_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/website >: *2b2884a0* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/website/commit/2b2884a03af41034a6018be64ae15f393d22a102 > fix syntax for PHP7.
  15. kalkin Gajim needs a better algorithm for catching up. Currently in 1.0.3, it apperently starts from the beginnning and spams the message window with needless scrolling. It should fetch the last ~X messages, and then start catching up the inbetween messages
  16. lovetox yes would do that if that would be easy
  17. kalkin Ahh is a known issue. Good thanks
  18. zuglufttier lovetox, how does Gajim fetch and display those messages right now?
  19. zuglufttier I mean are they downloaded into a database or something?
  20. lovetox all messages we receive go intot the database
  21. zuglufttier And Gajim knows how much messages are in MAM?
  22. lovetox no, why would it need to know that?
  23. zuglufttier To display them in reverse ;) So gajim would load all messages into a table, sort them and only then start beginning to display the first x oldest messages.
  24. zuglufttier Err, newest messages.
  25. zuglufttier No, that way, you wouldn't know which messages are new for you
  26. zuglufttier Forget it :D
  27. lovetox mam messages are never new
  28. lovetox requesting history in reverse is sadly a very compicated thing right now with mam
  29. lovetox i have a idea how it can be done, but its much work
  30. zuglufttier You don't have to request the history in reverse, you can do the sorting in gajim, can't you?
  31. lovetox but i dont know how many messages i will get, then you have undefined period of time where the user gets no messages at all
  32. zuglufttier So, it would be trivial to implement if you knew how much messages will come?
  33. zuglufttier "trivial"
  34. lovetox no the problem is, you join a muc, since you last joined there were 1000 messags written
  35. lovetox now lets say we dont request mam on join, only if the user scrolls to the top and requests it
  36. lovetox then you want from the server the message 999 to display it instantly to the user
  37. lovetox instead you would have to begin at 1 if you dont do it in reverse
  38. lovetox thats just inefficient
  39. lovetox you donwload messages that the user potentially dont want to see
  40. lovetox and depending on the amount, it needs a long time until the user sees the message he wanted
  41. lovetox so reverse is what we want to do
  42. lovetox but that is really tricky for other reasons
  43. zuglufttier And the server is sending one message after the other?
  44. lovetox yes
  45. zuglufttier And that takes the time, I guess.
  46. lovetox depends how fast your internet is and your server
  47. lovetox 1000 messages can be 5 seconds, or 20
  48. zuglufttier We need diff for mam messages. You just send the date of your last received message and the server will send one big package will all the messages up to now.
  49. lovetox thats how mam works
  50. lovetox the server sends the data as fast as he is able to
  51. zuglufttier But he will send 1.000 messages then? And not one.
  52. lovetox whats the difference, if you send 1000 x 1 message, or 1 message that is as big as 1000 messages?
  53. zuglufttier We could use compression for the transfer.
  54. zuglufttier Text can be compressed very good.
  55. lovetox this would apply to all xmpp traffic, not only for MAM
  56. zuglufttier Hm...
  57. lovetox its of course a good thing to get data faster
  58. lovetox but still to be efficient you would want to request what is actually asked
  59. lovetox like the last 20 messages
  60. lovetox and not all messages since last join
  61. asterix lovetox, why is "upload avatar" greyed for me in this room?
  62. zuglufttier So server support, I would guess.
  63. lovetox you have to install the module
  64. asterix ok, will look later then
  65. zuglufttier Looking into the XEP, everything should be supported, like fetching the last N message in a given time period.
  66. lovetox yes but you dont know how many message you will get
  67. lovetox means if the last 10 days nothing was written, and you request always one day
  68. zuglufttier No, but you can limit them and page through the result.
  69. lovetox yes
  70. lovetox still you start by 1
  71. zuglufttier Ah, now I see!
  72. lovetox paging is just to not block your UI
  73. zuglufttier You get the least interesting ones first ;)
  74. andrey.g lovetox >and not all messages since last join Why not since last received message (fetched from DB)?
  75. lovetox i meant that
  76. andrey.g so if asked since last joined, message come in properly order, so you can display them as is, but if asked from some timestamp they come in some other order and must be buffered and this is tricky and that's why not yet done?
  77. andrey.g so if asked since last join, message come in properly order, so you can display them as is, but if asked from some timestamp they come in some other order and must be buffered and this is tricky and that's why not yet done?
  78. andrey.g so if asked since last join, messages come in properly order, so you can display them as is, but if asked from some timestamp they come in some other order and must be buffered and this is tricky and that's why not yet done?
  79. lovetox it does not matter if you request since last join or since a timestamp, thats the same thing
  80. lovetox you get the oldest always first
  81. lovetox means not the messages you want to see, you want to see the most recent messages
  82. andrey.g But it would be at least much much better than to get all the message since last join, no?
  83. lovetox then you have a hole
  84. lovetox that you need to track additionally
  85. lovetox that also means you can have many holes
  86. lovetox also requesting with timestamps is not pretty
  87. lovetox because how much do you request 1 day?
  88. lovetox so what if nothing was written?,
  89. andrey.g joined -> received messages -> (last timestamp=xyz) -> closed gajim -> (some messages have been posted) -> started Gajim -> (asked since timestamp=xyz) -> received messages. Where could be holes?
  90. lovetox thats how gajim does it
  91. lovetox the problem is that there could now be 1000 messages since you closed gajim
  92. andrey.g but it askes not since last timestamp, but since the last join. There could be thousands of messages inbetween, that are already in DB.
  93. lovetox so users come and ask, why does gajim downloads 1000 messages, if i only want to see the last 10
  94. lovetox andrey.g, thats not the problem here, as duplicates are not shown to the user
  95. lovetox so thats not the reason they ask the question
  96. andrey.g My issue is why Gajim does receiving of thousands of duplicates...
  97. zuglufttier andrey.g, that could be on the server side :D
  98. lovetox yes could be done better, but its not the point of discussion
  99. andrey.g I though there are two issues: hard to solve paging and easy to solve initial catch up after Gajim joins a MUC. So the easy one is not subject to change?
  100. lovetox you seem to not understand the problem
  101. lovetox it does not matter if gajim request since last join or since last message
  102. lovetox because both can have many messages
  103. lovetox yes you can make it a bit more efficient, but that does not solve the problem
  104. lovetox that if you join, since your last message, there is an unknown amount of messages in MAM
  105. zuglufttier andrey.g, I already discussed that with him a few minutes ago, check your MAM :D
  106. andrey.g Perhaps, but if I close Gajim and restart it in a two minutes, I'd expect it joins immediately, which is not a case now.
  107. lovetox what does joining now have to do with it?
  108. andrey.g zuglufttier‎, yes, that's why I decdied to clarify my issue :)
  109. lovetox joining is completly separated from requesting messages from storage
  110. lovetox you mean the amount of traffic could be reduced if we request since last message
  111. lovetox so joining everything is faster
  112. lovetox ?
  113. andrey.g During joining I see MAM IDs in stanzas.
  114. andrey.g Yes!
  115. lovetox yes i agree
  116. lovetox there is no reason to request messages we already have
  117. andrey.g :)
  118. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *68bd3abb* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/68bd3abbcee7575bf8d8c01b1ef09f0f8f2ec51f > Fix creating metacontacts - We call finish() in on_drop_in_group() and on_drop_in_contact(), so dont do it in drag_drop() - Fix singal names
  119. mimi89999 https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/688e2dfb-a2f1-46ab-9295-9a5728675514
  120. mimi89999 Why am I getting so many of these?
  121. lovetox bug but thats fixed in latest master
  122. mimi89999 I am on messagewindow 🙁
  123. mimi89999 lovetox: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/28aada122d550ef2acba3eeabc524ba8f9c97b55
  124. mimi89999 Why not just an `else` instead of the `if not ctrl:` and `ctrl = None`?
  125. lovetox this code doesnt exist anymore
  126. mimi89999 Good
  127. test Is the XML console borked?
  128. test It's empty, 1.0.3+db77fa1aceb0
  129. lovetox you need nbxmpp-master
  130. opal when i set my status in gajim to "busy" i dont want to receive urgency hints on new activity
  131. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *80aee95f* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/80aee95f2ec38dfea321adbfc8c0161f49879a9c > Reset connect_maschine after disconnect on purpose
  132. lovetox yes seems good, please open a feature request
  133. Link Mauve lovetox, you did the same typo again. ^^
  134. Link Mauve It’s machine in English, not Maschine.
  135. lovetox .. fuck it
  136. concerto let's translate the whole codebase to use German names :D
  137. concerto Write in the _native_ language xD
  138. opal lol
  139. Zash like you can with perl!
  140. rom1dep https://www.scala-lang.org/blog/2017/04/01/announcing-skala.html
  141. concerto Write _native_ code 😂
  142. Daniel I giggled a lot
  143. Semperverus What sorts of efforts would have to be made in order to implement video chat into windows and how reasonable would it be for me to try to take on that challenge?
  144. Semperverus Video and voice rather
  145. lovetox hm depends on your skills
  146. lovetox protocol wise everything is already there
  147. lovetox its just broken somehow
  148. lovetox so its not about implementing, its rather, find the bug
  149. Zash On *Windows*? Wasn't the problem (in the past) that the libraries simply didn't work on Windows?
  150. Semperverus Yeah on Windows lol. I have a couple friends who keep getting upset at me that my chat server isn't like discord...
  151. Zash Altho I haven't tried any of that in almost exactly a decade
  152. Semperverus Was gonna see if I could fix the issue
  153. Zash 2008, when even my phone could do video chat over XMPP!
  154. lovetox i dont see the problem on Windows, all the libs are available
  155. lovetox asterix had a branch were audio was working between jitsi and gajim
  156. lovetox i see if i can find it
  157. lovetox there you go https://dev.gajim.org/asterix/gajim/tree/fix_jingle
  158. lovetox he said this worked between jitsi and gajim, but not between gajim and gajim for some reason he couldnt find
  159. lovetox how you get a dev env on windows, look at the win folder in the repo
  160. lovetox so i would start with getting audio to work
  161. lovetox then look at video, which will be probably more complex
  162. Semperverus That's fair
  163. concerto > lovetox: I don't have the HTTP Upload plugin - atleast, it doesn't show up in the plugins list. > lovetox: should I try deleting `~/.local/share/gajim/plugin/httpupload` ?
  164. concerto > https://conference.gajim.org:5281/pastebin/e6048fe6-f63c-4449-b7a9-c100dfc80d31
  165. concerto Crap, it expired.
  166. ValdikSS https://gajim.org/
  167. ValdikSS What has happened?
  168. ValdikSS I hope the website is not hacked.
  169. ValdikSS lovetox, ^^^
  170. Semperverus that looks like their http daemon broke with an update
  171. Semperverus I hate when this happens to mine
  172. Zash or out of disk space, which would also explain the paste
  173. bot Sophie Herold updated a merge request for _gajim/master_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/merge_requests/297 >: WIP: Rework History Dialog
  174. Daniel devel.gajim.org is still working though, probably another host
  175. lovetox concerto i think i found the httpupload problem
  176. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *394d38e6* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/394d38e663098199bcef6f9340337df3ab6870ea > Add lost server discovery query
  177. lovetox should be fine now
  178. concerto Thanks 🙂
  179. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *dbf891e9* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/dbf891e97c915ccd4562a0979382829310e3771f > Add missing bookmark dict entry
  180. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *137bf1f8* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/137bf1f8311c2a244718c738a0963669e713315f > MAM: Request from last received stanza-id Record stanza-ids from live messages. If Gajim is started query the archive from the last received stanza-id
  181. lovetox what is a sensible default for max days to request from a muc if we were not joined for a long time
  182. lovetox 20 days ?
  183. lovetox no we should do it the other way around, if you are not joined a muc for 20 days
  184. lovetox we request only 1 day of history
  185. mimi89999 lovetox: Shouldn't messages be requested automatically from MAM when browsing history?
  186. lovetox you mean in the history window?
  187. mimi89999 Yes
  188. lovetox hm would have to think up a way how to track which days we already loaded
  189. lovetox but yes, could be done
  190. lovetox but has nothing to do with my question
  191. lovetox i talk about if you join a muc how much should be loaded on join
  192. rom1dep lovetox: Should be a setting IMO, there are rooms that I need the full backlog of, because even if I may not be reading it all, greping is a must
  193. rom1dep Also, default should be max(Xdays, Ymessages)
  194. rom1dep (obviously, if there was not much backlog yesterday, let's not pass on filling that empty buffer)
  195. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 2 commits to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *b3f1416c* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/b3f1416c245a419784413605be2ba0bf8e0c738f > Move features dialog into gtk folder *a7d9701c* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/a7d9701c18dabd44801ed17dbe52c2f2245c62c4 > Move AccountCreationWizard into gtk folder
  196. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *23e39dc9* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/23e39dc9e69138294880126b80a9ebacbc7a2f76 > Move shortcuts dialog into gtk folder
  197. ValdikSS Hello, does Gajim have a roadmap or release plans? Any ETA for the next release?