Gajim - 2018-02-07

  1. SaltyBones lovetox, I think it would be great if it was somehow obvious if a room is private or public.
  2. bot Daniel updated a merge request for _gajim/master_ < >: Add navigation for chat history
  3. bot vanitasvitae created an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8883: < Gajim spams error messages on startup/resume from standby >
  4. dwd lovetox, Show the roles, not affiliations. Definitely don't try to merge them, I'd have said.
  5. lovetox dwd, why though
  6. lovetox roles give you very limited information in a unmoderated muc
  7. lovetox participants / visitor is useless in that context
  8. lovetox only moderator gives you the info that he can kick someone but thats it
  9. lovetox affiliations carry much more informations
  10. lovetox and implicitly carry also roles in most cases
  11. dwd But conceptually, the role is the current activity of the occupant, whereas an affiliation is a longer-term, but somewhat orthogonal relationship.
  12. lovetox both are about: what can this user do in this chat
  13. dwd Sort of. One is "What can the user do in this room", the other is "What could they do to this room".
  14. dwd Or if you prefer, Roles relate to permissions over occupants, affiliations to permissions over the room as a whole.
  15. SaltyBones lovetox, maybe a use-case analysis or whatever that's called these days would be helpful
  16. SaltyBones because except for "who can set a topic for me" what do I care who has what rights?
  17. lovetox who can make me a member of this room?
  18. lovetox who can make me an administrator
  19. lovetox who can change a room setting
  20. lovetox who can destroy this room
  21. lovetox all questions you cant answer from knowing someone is moderator
  22. lovetox who can change the topic, is also a question you cant answer from seeing a moderator
  23. SaltyBones my point is
  24. SaltyBones who really wants these questions answered?
  25. lovetox thats not the point
  26. SaltyBones because if that set is small it doesn't need to be super obvious
  27. lovetox the point is we have place to display information
  28. lovetox and there is a descision to be made what information that is
  29. SaltyBones right
  30. SaltyBones but all the question
  31. lovetox i can also make irc style groupchat roster with just names
  32. SaltyBones are actually "who can do what in this room"
  33. SaltyBones so by that logic we could actually put that in a room info
  34. lovetox theoretically yeah, pratically a visitor is not allowed to query the role infos of the room
  35. lovetox so i have no access to this
  36. lovetox the point is, what gives more information
  37. lovetox if you know someone is Admin
  38. lovetox or if you know someone is Moderator
  39. lovetox and Admin always wins for me
  40. SaltyBones I'm confused.
  41. SaltyBones So if you cannot query it what are you going to display?
  42. SaltyBones Roles, another thing that doesn't really need to exist in groups. I am having confirmation bias for this idea of separating groups and public chats. :p
  43. lovetox but that has nothing to do with it
  44. lovetox roles and affiliations exist in closed groups and public rooms
  45. lovetox the information who is admin etc is stored in the room config
  46. SaltyBones no, sorry that was unrelated
  47. lovetox and it is told you in the presence of each member if you join
  48. lovetox of course i could gather the infos and display it in a window
  49. lovetox but it would be better if visitors just could query the room config as this information is there already
  50. SaltyBones Are you rebuilding something or why are you question the status-quo with mods/particips?
  51. SaltyBones No offense, just curious! :)
  52. dwd lovetox, There are lots of questions you can ask. Some are generally unanswerable, but the question of "This guy is fucking about who can I nudge to kick him" seems one of the mnost pressing.
  53. lovetox but that information is totally available to you when we display affiliations
  54. SaltyBones goes to read the backlog.
  55. SaltyBones lovetox, what do you mean by affiliation?
  56. lovetox
  57. SaltyBones Ah, yeah sure...
  58. SaltyBones And can I ask again, why are you even considering changing things?
  59. SaltyBones Sorry, I seem to have missed a vital part of the entire discussion. :/
  60. lovetox because i rework the groupchat roster
  61. dwd lovetox, Well, no, it isn't. Affilations tell you who could make themselves or another a Moderator. Moderators can kick.
  62. lovetox and right now affiliations are shown as little colored squares over the status icon
  63. lovetox dwd there are default roles for affiliations
  64. lovetox and even if some serverimpl doesnt follow them
  65. lovetox a admin can make itself to moderator and kick you
  66. lovetox so it does not matter if he currently is moderator
  67. dwd lovetox, Sure. But you're still making what I'd argue were the critical questions indirect.
  68. dwd lovetox, And an affiliation of None can also be made a Role. You're just arguing that changing the room description is more important to discover quickly than kicking someone.
  69. lovetox i would also show people that are not admin but moderator in a separate modertor group
  70. lovetox owner, admin, moderator, member, visiotr
  71. lovetox but maybe i keep it the way it is
  72. lovetox though im not really convinced that this is in any way "better"
  73. SaltyBones right now there is only moderator and rest?
  74. lovetox rest are not moderators..
  75. SaltyBones so you are proposing to move admins to the moderators group?
  76. SaltyBones (sidenote: can somebody kill this stupid "error while sending so you are proposing to move admins to the moderators group? ( The room is currently overactive, please try again later )")
  77. dwd SaltyBones, What? What's that error from?
  78. SaltyBones dwd, I don't know but I get it pretty frequently in this MUC.
  79. dwd SaltyBones, Weird. Not seen that one.
  80. dwd SaltyBones, Oh, and unrelated - did you spot the MLS drafts? I think the whole question of OMEMO etc is now rather moot.
  81. lovetox MLS?
  82. SaltyBones dwd, I did and I hope this turns out to be the silver bullet it is trying to be :D
  83. dwd lovetox,
  84. dwd SaltyBones, I've started sketching out a XEP, FWIW.
  85. SaltyBones nice, anything readable, yet?
  86. dwd SaltyBones, Nothing yet. Trying to figure out a canonical representation for the MLS messages; I think I'm going to go for Shit XML.
  87. dwd SaltyBones, As in, no attributes, just values. XMLNS is a risk, still, though, but the only other solution would be a distinct serialization format, like JSON or CBOR or something, or else base64 the MLS payloads.
  88. SaltyBones Honestly, I have no clue what you are talking about. :)
  89. SaltyBones I mean the encrypted payload is binary so I guess the base64 is the only possibility, right?
  90. dwd SaltyBones, Ah, no, it's an abstract syntax. Could be encoded in any particular way we choose. BER, perhaps, to freak everyone out.
  91. SaltyBones wonders if dwd is making up all those acronyms.
  92. dwd SaltyBones, ASN.1 Basic Encoding Rules, as used in X.509. (Well, sorta - X.509 uses Distinguished Encoding Rules, which are a proper subset).
  93. debacle As long es it is not Packed Encoding Rules...
  94. debacle which are really, really hard
  95. bot Hoeze created an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8884: < Flatpak image issues >
  96. debacle lovetox, I see that there is a version bump in but no tag so far. Is this intended?
  97. dwd debacle, Could go for CER to confuse everyone, too. But no.
  98. debacle CER and DER are just variants of BER, right?
  99. lovetox yes debacle, i think there is no need to tag this, we should soon hit beta and a new version with that anyway
  100. debacle lovetox, soon™ :~) (no pressure from my side, I'm happy with alpha2!)
  101. debacle Will package alpha3 anyway for Debian. It's not much work, and it might help to find more bugs as early as possible.
  102. lovetox debacle fyi we had to migrate passwords, and this was not possible with libsecret, so on next version its intended that users are asked for there password again
  103. lovetox *their
  104. nico for me this did not happen after upgrading the package on archlinux.
  105. lovetox when did you upgrade?
  106. nico something like 20 mins ago
  107. lovetox then i would look if you password is not in plain in the config file
  108. lovetox maybe keyring storage does not work
  109. debacle OK, I will try this out and create a "NEWS.Debian" file, which will be displayed to the root user before installation.
  110. nico lovetox, ahh found the config file. yes the password is in cleartext in the config file
  111. Maranda Ohh they installed Linux on the Nintendo Switch
  112. Maranda 🤔
  113. mathieui time for gajim
  114. Maranda And the bootloader(?) exploit apparently is not fixable by nintendo either
  115. Maranda 🤔 🤔 😲
  116. Neustradamus Maranda: nice, soon Metronome on it ^^
  117. Maranda That's Link Mauve's stuff more than mine 🤨
  118. Maranda I'm just reading a random news headline :P
  119. SaltyBones Maranda, what?
  120. SaltyBones an unfixable bootloader exploit?
  121. SaltyBones linklinklink?
  122. Maranda I only presume it's the bootloader but it was described as unfixable
  123. Maranda
  124. Neustradamus :)
  125. bot Charlemagne Lasse created an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8885: < Doesn't connect anymore to server >
  126. bot andy created an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8886: < Gajim throw an error when a user is trying to search for rooms on a muc server. >
  127. andy lovetox, why gajim beep using a integrated speaker when I click on a backspace when there is no characters in a input message window?
  128. andy its annoying :P
  129. lovetox its not gajim
  130. lovetox GTK on your system
  131. andy how can I disable it?
  132. lovetox i dont know
  133. andy :)
  134. andy lovetox, can Gajim automaticly detect conference server when we type only server address in "join groupchat" window?
  135. andy lovetox, can Gajim automatically detect conference server when we type only server address in "join groupchat" window?
  136. andy for example I know only a server address: domain.tld and wanted to search for open muc rooms on it.
  137. andy when I type domain.told in mentioned window gajim should check conferences domain and replace it with entered server name and go to search for rooms.
  138. andy UX +1
  139. andy :)
  140. lovetox hm hard to do
  141. lovetox gajim cant know when you are finished typing your domain
  142. lovetox but it could display a option like "search for rooms" in the list
  143. lovetox so it knows
  144. andy yes
  145. andy when we enter an jid then click "search..."
  146. andy :)
  147. andy when we enter an jid then we click "search..."
  148. Asterix
  149. Asterix Nice wether today
  150. andy Asterix, what country?
  151. bot Philipp Hörist modified an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8885: < Doesn't connect anymore to server >
  152. Maranda lovetox, so added that muc icon thing yet :P?
  153. lovetox i worked until 18:00
  154. lovetox so no i havent done a thing
  155. Maranda ok :P
  156. bot Charlemagne Lasse closed an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8885: < Doesn't connect anymore to server >
  157. Asterix Paris
  158. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < >: *4bbc6b19* < > Fail gracefully on invalid MAM GC Stanza Fixes #8883
  159. bot Philipp Hörist closed an issue in _gajim_ < >: #8883: < Gajim spams error messages on startup/resume from standby >
  160. mdosch I don't see my contacts avatars anymore. gajim 0.98.3 GTK+ Version: 3.22.26 PyGObject-Version: 3.26.1 python-nbxmpp Version: 0.6.3
  161. mdosch Debian testing with Gnome
  162. mdosch Ok, looks like only people using only conversations are affected...
  163. horstvogel > I don't see my contacts avatars anymore. > gajim 0.98.3 > GTK+ Version: 3.22.26 > PyGObject-Version: 3.26.1 > python-nbxmpp Version: 0.6.3 > Debian testing with Gnome 🤔 the same on Windows Master 07.02
  164. Maranda >.>?
  165. Maranda I do
  166. Maranda just installed 02.07 as well.
  167. lovetox i changed nothing with avatar code
  168. lovetox so .. you can start gajim with -l gajim.avatar=DEBUG to get more useful infos
  169. lovetox also be aware that your contacts should be online if you never had their avatar on that machine
  170. mdosch lovetox, my wife and my mum are affected and I always saw their avatar :D
  171. lovetox do you host the server?
  172. lovetox bring me logs :)
  173. lovetox -l gajim.avatar=DEBUG
  174. lovetox should clearly show if we receive an avatar or not
  175. SaltyBones hm..i guess i could update again
  176. mdosch gajim always gives me a hard time to write output to a file. But 'history|grep gajim' helped ^^
  177. SaltyBones shsJ
  178. debacle lovetox: I just upgraded to 0.98.3 a.k.a. 1.0.0~alpha3 and there was nothing to do with my passwords. It just worked.
  179. mdosch When grepping for an affected JID I see this: 07.02.2018 21:09:38 (I) gajim.avatar: Update (Pubsub): REMOVED_JID 27b6e3a0a5693355c0c286967740834b9c8cf082 07.02.2018 21:09:38 (I) gajim.avatar: Request (Pubsub): REMOVED_JID Doesn't look suspicious. And 'grep ... -A5 -B5' I also do not see errors
  180. lovetox uh debacle
  181. lovetox did you see we have keyring now as a dependency?
  182. lovetox mdosch i need the next line
  183. lovetox request means we request an avatar
  184. lovetox what happend then :)
  185. lovetox also you dont need to write to a file
  186. lovetox if you just start gajim from conosole with the filter i gave you
  187. lovetox there are not many log entries
  188. lovetox no need to put it into a file
  189. mdosch next line is Update (Pubsub) from another JID
  190. lovetox yeah but sometimes later there has to be some result from that request
  191. mdosch There is a lot as it requests avatars for all muc members
  192. lovetox so dont join a muc for the test?
  193. lovetox either way
  194. lovetox this shows we dont have the avatar
  195. lovetox and if there is no result for that request somewhere
  196. lovetox then this means we dont get it for some reason
  197. mdosch I sent you a pm as I was lazy to redact. :)
  198. mdosch >‎[21:19:04] ‎lovetox‎: so dont join a muc for the test? This would lead to go through a lot of bookmarks to remove the auto-join flag ^^
  199. lovetox yeah ^^
  200. lovetox kk let me look into it
  201. lovetox how we can find out more
  202. debacle OK, I installed python3-keyring, but no change in behaviour
  203. debacle Gajim logs in into all my active accounts
  204. lovetox i fear we dont use the keyring
  205. SaltyBones lovetox, I am trying to figure out where link handling happens, any hints? :)
  206. lovetox conversations_textview
  207. lovetox grep for hyperlink_handler
  208. debacle self.secret = SecretPasswordStorage() should use the keyring, right?
  209. lovetox yes
  210. lovetox just look into your config file
  211. debacle ah, it's a config option
  212. lovetox grep for password
  213. debacle 'use_keyring'
  214. lovetox yeah but it should be true always
  215. debacle in my active accounts it's always: (myserver.bla).password = keyring:
  216. debacle with the trailing colon
  217. debacle lovetox, you are right: the variable is True and the constructor runs
  218. lovetox yeah then its ok
  219. lovetox obviously because if "keyring:" is your config password, and it still works, gajim gets the password from the keyring and not the config file
  220. lovetox so weird hm
  221. debacle I remember, I had password problems, when I upgraded from 0.16.8/9 to the first Python 3 versions.
  222. lovetox i guess on some systems it still possible to migrate that
  223. lovetox then everything is good
  224. lovetox just make it a dependency in the python build
  225. lovetox ah gajim package
  226. lovetox i mean
  227. debacle Yes, I did, thanks for the headsup!
  228. HS-157 huhu
  229. SaltyBones lovetox, is there a dialog that allows me to show two buttons and label them myself? :)
  230. lovetox in gtk?
  231. SaltyBones in gajim
  232. lovetox hm look in
  233. lovetox there are a bunch
  234. SaltyBones my editor doesn't have any clever outlining :(
  235. SaltyBones lovetox, is there a decent manual of the gtk python api somewhere?
  236. lovetox
  237. lovetox and countless examples on the net
  238. SaltyBones thx :)
  239. SaltyBones lovetox, what are the best dev docs that we have on the wiki? these: ?
  240. SaltyBones Asterix, if you have a second could you fix the "development" link on the website? it points at trac...
  241. lovetox yes although they are old and not maintained
  242. SaltyBones lovetox, what do I have to do to start a second instance? I have done this before but I guess I forgot what the trick was or didn't need it previously...
  243. lovetox -p profilename
  244. SaltyBones even if I specify -c?
  245. SaltyBones mkay
  246. lovetox yes
  247. lovetox only the -p switch sets a different appid
  248. SaltyBones If I ask things like this, is there something like a FAQ on the wiki where I can collect the answers? :)
  249. SaltyBones lovetox, what's the best way to test a plug-in? just symlink to the code from the plugins dir?
  250. lovetox yes
  251. lovetox and yes you can work on the wiki
  252. lovetox i just have to find out how to give you the rights
  253. lovetox and if you change code in a plugin, restart gajim, dont just disable/enable the plugin
  254. lovetox hm should now work SaltyBones
  255. SaltyBones Thx, will try tomorrow