Gajim - 2018-02-05


  1. pitchum personnaly I'd prefer to have that "expand MUC users list" configurable for each bookmark on public rooms with many people I don't know I leave the list hidden, but on smaller MUC for family and friends I always expand it manually
  2. pitchum another option would be to auto-restore the last known state of that list for each MUC
  3. rom1dep > some people wants to not expand this list by default and others wanted to do so making an option would be a good thing I think it should be expanded by default on new rooms: when you join a room for the first time, you almost always want to know how many people are in it, and possibly have a quick look at the names, who the owner are... Then the state should be remembered
  4. debacle How is the beta going on?
  5. SaltyBones Hm...how about actually separating the concepts of public chat and group in the UI?
  6. SaltyBones Not sure if that is a good idea but I feel like it is worth evaluating. ;)
  7. SaltyBones After all, a lot of the problems we have are due to the fact that we consider those to be the same thing.
  8. lovetox and how to separate them?
  9. lovetox with the config attribute, members-only?
  10. lovetox so if members-only is set always display roster
  11. lovetox but people seem to be fine with not seeing the roster on phones
  12. rom1dep Under the assumption that the members list is only important in a members-only room?
  13. rom1dep > but people seem to be fine with not seeing the roster on phones Different paradigms, on phone you just can't, it doesn't mean that if you could you would prefer not to have it
  14. lovetox no members-only makes a room not public
  15. lovetox thats the only way how you could separate public rooms from not public rooms
  16. lovetox and yes the assumption is that public rooms could have many participants, to always see the first 20 seems questionable
  17. lovetox while members-only rooms tend to have very few members
  18. rom1dep Yeah but from the first 20 you may already see/be looking for some known nicks. The software has no way to 1- know your intention to use the roster or not, 2- know whether the current roster is of any help for you. And I don't think the members-only attributes helps with any of that
  19. lovetox either way, i will make it a per room setting
  20. lovetox so everyone can do what they want :)
  21. rom1dep That's an excellent idea
  22. lovetox rom1dep, could you stop the time from when you join the python-unregistered irc channel with dino
  23. lovetox until the topic message appears?
  24. lovetox under the assumption that dino posts the topic into the chat
  25. rom1dep lovetox: huh, I've no idea how to vala
  26. SaltyBones lovetox: I was just thinking if you have such a setting group/pubchat you could also use that to decide what kind of notifications you get, what happens when users leave or messages don't get delivered etc
  27. lovetox rom1dep i meant with your watch, you told me you tried it and it didnt take long to join the chanel
  28. lovetox so i wanted to know what timeframe we are talking about
  29. rom1dep lovetox: yeah, about 10s maybe
  30. rom1dep in that ballpark
  31. lovetox ah k nice, with my new code im also around 10 s
  32. rom1dep really?
  33. lovetox yeah why?
  34. rom1dep how do you find time to do all of that?
  35. rom1dep why? Because I'm amazed :)
  36. lovetox actually destroying the current roster and do a new one is a matter of an hour, but to integrate the countless things you can do with the current roster besides just showing the members, thats were the work starts
  37. rom1dep maybe it can benefit from some generalization as well
  38. lovetox yeah making things new is always nice :)
  39. rom1dep I don't have any example in mind, but I too often have felt like right-clicking on some things was giving me inconsistent options
  40. rom1dep to a large extent, it shouldn't matter if I'm clicking on a jid in the main roster, or in a room, or in the chat's tab, ... I think it should show me the same "user actions" with the not applicable ones grayed-out
  41. rom1dep but again, I'm terrible with UIs
  42. rom1dep lovetox: whad made you want to get rid of CSD on windows?
  43. rom1dep lovetox: what made you want to get rid of CSD on windows?
  44. lovetox too many people complaint
  45. rom1dep there are obvious bugs
  46. rom1dep sometimes you click on the decoration, and release, Gtk still believes you are clicking and you end-up dragging the window desperately wherever the cursor goes
  47. rom1dep buttons behaviour is flaky
  48. rom1dep when you do tiling by dragging the window into a screen edge, it gets the screen dimensions wrong, so you have a large border of unused space around the window, and gtk's tiling seem to be conflicting with window's at times
  49. rom1dep hope these will disappear together with CSD
  50. lovetox hm on Ubuntu and Gnome, Mac OS you have global menus
  51. lovetox but on Windows, you have not, so under the window header there is a menubar
  52. lovetox that does not look that nice
  53. SaltyBones CSD?
  54. lovetox either way, its not affected by it
  55. lovetox but if i would use gnome decorations i could move this menu to the headerbar
  56. lovetox and get rid of the menu bar
  57. lovetox so maybe i will experiment with it on windows only again
  58. lovetox but definitly use some css to style the headerbar
  59. lovetox the default looks ugly
  60. rom1dep yeah but even with the default headerbar, no customizations, no crazy control in it, it's already completely broken on windows
  61. rom1dep maybe not so wise
  62. lovetox yeah it has some issues :)
  63. lovetox anyway not exactly high priority right now anyway
  64. rom1dep I installed alt+drag, so I don't have to interact much with the broken CSD :)
  65. SaltyBones What s the cad?
  66. SaltyBones CSD
  67. lovetox client side decoration
  68. lovetox the window border is drawn by gtk
  69. lovetox resulting in gtk look of the window
  70. bot CyberJinh created an issue in _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8881 >: #8881: < Can't create new conversation >
  71. bot CyberJinh modified an issue in _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8881 >: #8881: < Can't create new conversation >
  72. bot Bronko created an issue in _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8882 >: #8882: < Roster position outside of desktop on dual-monitor setup >
  73. bot Bronko modified an issue in _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8882 >: #8882: < Roster position outside of desktop on dual-monitor setup >
  74. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *4a65f4ae* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/4a65f4aeae70717494d5824a19bac454af0ca100 > Fix StartChatDialog Fixes #8881
  75. bot Philipp Hörist closed an issue in _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues/8881 >: #8881: < Can't create new conversation >
  76. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim >: *1f3a3211* < https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/1f3a321112cf5f49bba50891d6d4279f00abda97 > Add Gajim version to exception output
  77. Link Mauve lovetox, can name be False or '' or [] or something like that?
  78. Link Mauve Otherwise, if the option is between None and something else, you should keep the “is None”.
  79. Link Mauve It’s both faster and more explicit.
  80. lovetox it can be empty string
  81. Link Mauve Ok.
  82. lovetox found out that the name attr in bookmarks is only recommended
  83. lovetox not mandatory :/
  84. lovetox anyone seen a good film recently?
  85. rom1dep lovetox: what kind of film?
  86. lovetox doesnt matter
  87. lovetox one that you enjoyed
  88. Link Mauve Lately I watched and enjoyed Colorful.
  89. lovetox hm too special for my torrent site
  90. lovetox maybe i watch battle of the sexes
  91. Link Mauve Try BakaBT or Nyaa.
  92. rom1dep lovetox: if it's your type and haven't yet, maybe you want to catch-up with the last season of black mirror
  93. lovetox hm yeah i watched the first season
  94. rom1dep the first one wasn't my favourite
  95. Link Mauve rom1dep, oh right, I need to start that one.
  96. Link Mauve I’ve heard good things about this series.
  97. rom1dep if you've read a ton of sci-fi, or put a lot of thought into trans-humanism and eugenics, it isn't really ground breaking, but it's mainstream enough so you can have interesting discussions with colleagues and friends that the genre generally rebuts
  98. lovetox wtf windows10 just ask me to rate windows mail
  99. Maranda 🤣 🤣
  100. lovetox omg my 10 mbit internet sucks so hard
  101. Maranda Hmm the only thing that is strange in this lappy.. I always thought SSD werent supposed to make noises, and I can sort of hear write noises
  102. Maranda (it has a 1TB SSD)
  103. lovetox then its a hybrid
  104. lovetox has ssd storage for fast access and normal for long term storage
  105. Maranda I looked up the model it says "SSD" though
  106. Maranda Lemme go pick up the hd model again
  107. Maranda .
  108. Maranda lovetox, https://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-pm961-mzvlw1t0hmlh-solid-state-drive-1-tb-pci-express-3-0-x4-nvme/specs/
  109. Maranda not that I'm an expert on SSDs tbh
  110. lovetox seems like a pure ssd
  111. Maranda I swear I hear some r/w noises though, or that's what I'd think they're lol
  112. rom1dep Maranda: coil whine?
  113. rom1dep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blyswNKEPEY
  114. Maranda Not that loud but sounds like yeah
  115. debacle What is the state of pubsub in Gajim? I'm subscribed to one node or the other via Movim, but I wonder what Gajim does in respect to them?
  116. Maranda You get notifications?
  117. Maranda As long as that isn't changed
  118. Maranda They were popups in previous versions
  119. debacle I run alpha2 and I see only some notification when I subscribe to a new node. Then nothing, as far as I can see.
  120. debacle I run 1.0.0-alpha2 and I see only some notification when I subscribe to a new node. Then nothing, as far as I can see.
  121. lovetox debacle gajim is not a client for pubsub
  122. lovetox at least not if you expect things like movim
  123. lovetox rom1dep, dino-im need 40 seconds to join that channel
  124. lovetox with my current gajim code i need 23
  125. rom1dep lovetox: it definitely was less than that in my tests
  126. rom1dep but all my thumbs are up for the effort
  127. rom1dep that's awesome news
  128. lovetox now it did it in 30
  129. lovetox seems hard to depend also on the server
  130. lovetox and how fast he delivers
  131. lovetox but i guess i will make some UI that tells you how much users have been fetched and where we are in the process of joining
  132. lovetox but this definitly brings a gtk application to the limits
  133. lovetox you have to count in that you want that 2000 users to be sorted
  134. lovetox also
  135. rom1dep a listview of 2k items isn't much, is it?
  136. Maranda And yes rom1dep that's it: https://youtu.be/UczEPTw4wZQ
  137. rom1dep lovetox: any plan to support MUC avatars?
  138. Maranda I just never experienced coil whines before
  139. lovetox i pure list like irc displays it is probably not much
  140. rom1dep Maranda: new trend it seems :(
  141. lovetox but drawing fancy avatars and using css on each row etc
  142. lovetox rom1dep, what do you mean with muc avatars
  143. lovetox gajim supports muc avatars like ever
  144. lovetox gajim supports muc avatars like since forever
  145. rom1dep where do I see it?
  146. lovetox you open the muc roster
  147. lovetox you dont see a single avatar here in the channel?
  148. rom1dep lovetox: I literally mean the MUC's avatar
  149. lovetox since when has a muc an avatar
  150. rom1dep https://upload.tamytro.org/upload/a3849b367f4dd4cedd5ad6f64afa7645b7d4f834/resS1FbsWqRFrwMJENKjHij1eQTYnhIjman88wiK/muc_avatar.png
  151. Maranda O. O
  152. lovetox hm as you can see thats the first 2 letters of the topic or something
  153. lovetox maybe they hardcoded one for ejabbered
  154. lovetox im not aware of a xep that lets mucs publish avatars
  155. Maranda MUC room "favicons" don't look like a xep-45 thing
  156. rom1dep IIRC it's a PEP thing
  157. Maranda That's MIX
  158. Maranda Then not MUC
  159. rom1dep nope, I don't have MIX
  160. debacle MIX? Does it really exist? Like the Loch Ness monster or the Yeti?
  161. rom1dep oh
  162. Maranda Apparently, I dont even recognize that client rom1dep
  163. rom1dep https://docs.ejabberd.im/tutorials/muc-vcard/
  164. rom1dep Maranda: movim
  165. debacle lovetox, I checked pubsub again: I actually get popups for new items. Maybe there was a server side problem before...
  166. lovetox yeah debacle but its horrible ui
  167. Maranda Then it's an ejabberd thing
  168. lovetox you dont want to use that
  169. lovetox vcard on the muc jid
  170. lovetox i didnt know this existed
  171. rom1dep doesn't seem to be anything proprietary there
  172. lovetox but it ugly
  173. lovetox but its ugly
  174. debacle lovetox, I agree, pubsub in Gajim is not nice. Maybe at some point in the future it can be improved. Pubsub has *a lot* of potential and it would be nice to have not only a web interface to it.
  175. lovetox because you have to poll the vcard on every join
  176. lovetox which makes muc joining even slower
  177. Maranda It's not very standard either but I suppose it's within tollerance
  178. Maranda Although polling sounds eiree yeah
  179. lovetox i guess you could write code that polls it only once a month
  180. Maranda Since the muc itself cant deliver the avatar hash in a presence
  181. lovetox i guess the icon will not change often
  182. Maranda .. And what happens if it gets changed before time... Well hack for hack I suppose 🤣
  183. lovetox then you see one month the old one
  184. lovetox no user will know or care i think :)
  185. Maranda Tbh I dont see the necessity for a room favicon either but that's entirely an opinional flavour
  186. rom1dep how big can a 64×64 png base64-encoded image be to not warrant a more frequent polling than that?
  187. Maranda Because that's what basically it is.. A favicon for room
  188. lovetox how important can it be rom1dep that you need it always totally up2date
  189. Maranda Favicons don't necessarily are 64x64?
  190. Maranda Browsers do resize, it's the a:ratio that counts
  191. rom1dep lovetox: dunno, but once a day don't seem to me like a significant use of bandwidth
  192. lovetox its not about bandwith
  193. lovetox its about joining mucs
  194. Maranda Although if there was a way to check the hash like normally it's done that wouldnt be an issue
  195. lovetox but i guess you could also delay the poll for the avatar
  196. rom1dep can't you pull after you join?
  197. Maranda Just that its not possible
  198. Maranda Polling 10 secs after join?
  199. rom1dep some like that
  200. Maranda I see that the problem would be the ui part more rather than the fetching part
  201. Maranda Where'd you put that icon? And *how* 😉
  202. lovetox em maybe there where now the muc icon is
  203. Maranda Would you fetch icons when discovering for the room list too?
  204. Maranda Etc
  205. Maranda Rooms list* rather
  206. Maranda Also if they put a large picture you'd need to resize it
  207. Maranda There're a lot of potential issues
  208. lovetox ok Maranda you grasping for staws
  209. lovetox its just one more avatar ^^
  210. lovetox if i join a muc like gajim i have to potentially download 50 or so
  211. Maranda But what about the rooms list?
  212. lovetox yeah i just would not download avatars there
  213. lovetox 1 in 10 people even know that such a feature exists like listing all rooms on a server
  214. Maranda I feel this room icon thing is more like a movim thing as well tbh
  215. rom1dep dunno, it's quite neat
  216. rom1dep better that than making-up a dummy icon by stitching together participant's avatar as many other clients do
  217. Maranda Conversations is not many...
  218. rom1dep dino does it as well
  219. Maranda But i'm not aware of any others 🤣🤣🤣
  220. Maranda 2 is not many as well 😁
  221. lovetox yeah im not liking this
  222. lovetox it makes also no sense ui wise
  223. lovetox except you have a muc with only 3 people, and have very good eyes
  224. Maranda Well if it's trivial to do why not, just that then you'd need to add an ui to set an avatar too.
  225. Maranda And limit it to ejabberd (clunkyness incoming)
  226. Maranda As server dev, if Gajim ever implements this (the ui to set as well) I may consider making a mod_muc_vcard, as I have many Gajim users otherwise not 😋
  227. rom1dep if only there was a process to standardize stuff like that, and a foundation to watch over it
  228. lovetox Maranda, but how to set it without server support ^^
  229. Maranda I'd find it sensible to advertise support
  230. lovetox hm didnt see that ejabbered lets you set it also
  231. lovetox thought that was some admin thing
  232. lovetox proably it tests if you are owner of the muc
  233. Maranda I'm not sure if ejabberd does advertise via vcard feature on the room
  234. Maranda That's how I'd do it
  235. Maranda Else it's just a hideous hack
  236. Maranda At least clients have a chance to know when that is supported instead of making ugly guesses
  237. Maranda It's just set like a normal vcard just with the iq set sent to the room lovetox
  238. Maranda Reading from the link rom1dep postef
  239. rom1dep can you guys federate with ‎conversations@conference.siacs.eu?
  240. lovetox what are you talking about rom1dep
  241. Maranda Holger is here already 😎
  242. Maranda No need
  243. rom1dep I was having Error 504: Connection failed: connection refused , and bounces. It's back it seems
  244. Maranda Oh lol
  245. Maranda Haha
  246. Maranda Ok going to hit the sack 🤣
  247. Maranda 🖖
  248. lovetox bye
  249. lovetox and yes they anounce vcard temp
  250. lovetox i checked
  251. lovetox rom1dep, im in the channel
  252. lovetox though nobody said something since 3 hours
  253. lovetox so maybe all ghosts and the muc is somehow stuck
  254. rom1dep https://status.conversations.im/historical/
  255. rom1dep doesn't look too bright
  256. lovetox its definitly not down
  257. lovetox as i just joined from my conversations account the ejabbered muc
  258. lovetox but may the muc hangs