Gajim - 2017-11-20


  1. rom1dep > MAM for MUCs is merged lovetox: wowh \o/
  2. rom1dep andrey.g: using hg-git?
  3. Holger Yay.
  4. Holger lovetox for president!
  5. pitchum I have a crash with gajim HEAD since yesterday and I can reproduce easily now: when my last other resource disconnects, gajim crashes with following traceback: https://paste.gajim.org/view/d6a180aa it only happens with option "show_self_contact=when_other_resource"
  6. zuglufttier What was the state of chat markers again? Is it supposed to work with gajim?
  7. ThibG No
  8. zuglufttier ThibG, thanks!
  9. Asterix pitchum: ok thanks, I'll look at that
  10. zuglufttier I just had a minor problem with gajim in an OMEMO 1:1 chat. I have two devices, one with gajim, one with Conversations. Conversations did not receive messages that I sent from gajim because gajim didn't trust the OMEMO key from Conversations.
  11. zuglufttier So far, I understand why that is happening. I had to manually trust the key and message carbons are now working fine.
  12. zuglufttier But couldn't gajim make the user aware of this? Maybe like this: "Another device was detected, is that you? Do you want to synchronize your messages with that device?"
  13. lovetox Yeah better UI is always possible :)
  14. cuc is 0.16.11.git20171118-1 the gtk3 build in debian exp. ?
  15. ThibG yes
  16. cuc hm and how would i switch my plugins to work with this?
  17. cuc afaik there is a difference
  18. cuc also would all gajim-data in my home be compatible to switch back just in case?
  19. ThibG I think it would be compatible, but I'd advise you to make a backup
  20. cuc hm
  21. cuc lets see
  22. Asterix No, you can't go back to 0.16
  23. Asterix You can upgrade though
  24. cuc hm ok
  25. lovetox cuc plugin packages are also in debian exp
  26. lovetox atleast omemo, httpupload, probably what you need
  27. lovetox image preview also i think
  28. lovetox but not sure of that one
  29. andrey.g rom1depβ€Ž > using hg-git? Do you mean prosody 0.10+hg / trunk + gajim git master? - Not yet.
  30. cuc lovetox, isnt it better to use the ones provided by the plugins repo like in stable?
  31. cuc to get updates faster i mean
  32. vanitasvitae Hi! Which branch am I supposed to checkout to get the OMEMO plugin to work? It seams like gajim-plugins gtk3 branch requires gajim 0.16.11.2, but gajim master is only 0.16.11.1 ?
  33. vanitasvitae when I checkout the master branch of gajim-plugins, no plugins show up at all
  34. lovetox_ cuc, there are no plugins for gajim master in stable
  35. lovetox_ and why would you get faster updates in stable
  36. lovetox_ that is a contradiction
  37. lovetox_ fast update and stable
  38. lovetox_ vanitasvitae, why do you think gajim master is 0.16.11.1?
  39. vanitasvitae because it says so in help -> about?
  40. lovetox_ then you dont have current head
  41. vanitasvitae last commit is "Query MUC archives with the correct namespace"
  42. lovetox_ yes
  43. vanitasvitae then i install using "sudo ./setup.py install --root=/usr/local"
  44. lovetox_ hm try to start gajim again and look at help
  45. lovetox_ hm no if you really installed first time i dont think it can show 0.16.11.1
  46. lovetox_ what does gajim -V show
  47. vanitasvitae is it correct, that gajim installs to "/usr/local/usr/bin" using the prefix "/usr/local"?
  48. lovetox_ sorry no idea
  49. lovetox_ the thing is though you dont need to install it
  50. vanitasvitae ?
  51. lovetox_ just start launch.py
  52. vanitasvitae so there is no way to install it nowadays?
  53. vanitasvitae let me check launch.py
  54. lovetox_ of course there is, but i dont know how that works on linux
  55. lovetox_ you may ask package managers how they do it
  56. vanitasvitae launch.py starts 0.16.11.2
  57. lovetox_ our readme says
  58. lovetox_ ./setup.py install --root=/
  59. vanitasvitae test
  60. lovetox_ or pip install .
  61. lovetox_ using pip is probably the better thing
  62. vanitasvitae Okay, i'll try that :)
  63. lovetox_ vanitasvitae, on what system are you?
  64. vanitasvitae Arch
  65. vanitasvitae No it works i think :)
  66. lovetox_ so why not using https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gajim-git/
  67. lovetox_ also omemo is on there
  68. vanitasvitae is that always pointing to master?
  69. lovetox_ thats why it called gajim-git
  70. vanitasvitae ah nice
  71. vanitasvitae might give it a try
  72. vanitasvitae Now OMEMO shows up again :) thx
  73. SaltyBones lovetox, just noticed, it seems destroying a room does not remove the bookmark
  74. lovetox_ yeah, could be a feature request, please open a issue if you want to see that
  75. concerto lovetox: any progress with PMs in OMEMO MUCs? I can't enable OMEMO in a PM window, sending a message sends it as unencrypted, and received PMs are still received as "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted."
  76. lovetox_ why are you not writing the person just in 1:1 chat?
  77. lovetox_ i really have to make it so gajim doesnt open PM Window if the contact is in your roster
  78. cuc lovetox, i was talking about that plugin manager does an http get to the git repo no? i would install exp. gajim package and use the online repo for plugins
  79. lovetox_ i guess you could do that, i thought people who use linux love there package manager :)
  80. cuc yes i do, for things that dont change much πŸ™‚
  81. cuc but im mixing debian stable with unstable/experimental already so .. πŸ™‚
  82. cuc and everyone who uses an rpm distro .. well i dont think he likes package managers
  83. cuc hrhr
  84. cuc ok i will try that gajim exp package when im home
  85. ArnaudJ www.lavoixdunord.fr/267284/article/2017-11-17/la-leonce-une-biere-100-made-malecot-et-une-aventure-unique
  86. ArnaudJ oops, sorry, wrong tab!
  87. concerto lovetox: we talked about this :\ http://paste.debian.net/996699/
  88. lovetox yeah but it makes things complicated
  89. lovetox im not even sure if we sync PM with mam
  90. lovetox and then there are carbons of PMs
  91. lovetox i would like people not use PMs at all :)
  92. Holger +1
  93. concerto lovetox: how would people not in each other's rosters send one-off PMs to each other, then?
  94. zuglufttier concerto, not.
  95. zuglufttier :D
  96. concerto πŸ™„
  97. Holger I can receive messages from people not on my roster just fine.
  98. Holger The thing to get rid of is anonymous MUCs.
  99. lovetox concerto, 1. you cannot talk with these people encrypted so your problem does not exist
  100. lovetox 2. in a ideal world there is no annonymous room, so there is just a chat window opened to the full jid
  101. zuglufttier But anonymous muc is a pretty nice feature of xmpp.
  102. Holger How so?
  103. lovetox what are you scared of that happens if you reveal your jid
  104. concerto I meant one-off PMs to each other in anonymous MUCs, in my last message.
  105. zuglufttier lovetox, it's about privacy and tracking.
  106. lovetox but your jid is known to the servers anyway
  107. Holger Nobody joins public rooms, except for us. Of those who do, I assume only a subset is interested in the anonymity. That subset should use a separate JID for joining public MUCs, IMO.
  108. zuglufttier lovetox, but then again, your JID alone does not reveal your true identity
  109. lovetox and to all admins
  110. Holger Just like mailing list users, for example.
  111. zuglufttier Holger, yes, using a special JID for anomynous mucs would be the best way. You could connect through tor to create an account, too.
  112. Holger zuglufttier: Yup. Supporting the anonymity within the group chat extension introduces so many hard-to-solve problems that I think the benefits aren't worth the hassle.
  113. zuglufttier Something like 10minutemail.com for xmpp would be nice. Create a throwaway idenity for anonymity.
  114. lovetox zuglufttier, a xep like that has been proposed
  115. lovetox burner-jids
  116. dwd Holger, We (Surevine) have some serious use-cases where pseudonymity that's penetratable by the administrator is important.
  117. zuglufttier lovetox, burner jids are a good idea but you need an account for that. Using tor is even easier. As long as you don't connect all your accounts at the same time...
  118. lovetox i think this pseudoannonymity has its uses of course, its just bad that we try to make all xep features work with it
  119. lovetox it should have a clear use case that it fullfills and everything else it should be not used for
  120. zuglufttier Yes, the use cases must be defined precisely. In the end, it's all in the hands of the server admins.
  121. lovetox people are like, i want mam, pms, carbons, encryption, this and that and everything AND nobody should know who iam
  122. zuglufttier And that's how good software is made :D
  123. zuglufttier And security holes.
  124. Holger dwd: What lovetox said. I remember you mentioning this before but I don't remember anyone else, so my impression is that this use-case is somewhat niche. Hence I think it would be nice if this could go into a separate extension.
  125. zuglufttier Now that I thought about it, I'd prefer that anonymous mucs should be removed altogether.
  126. dwd Holger, But pseudonymity at the chat room (or service) level works fine with all those features.
  127. Holger dwd: So I receive the (incoming and outgoing) MUC PMs with the subset of my other clients which is also joined to the room? I see my peer's PEP avatar, I can establish an OMEMO session with him, and so on? Our conversation ends up in a MAM archive (which one)?
  128. Holger The carbon-copying for the other clients works regardless of whether they're using the same nick or a different one?
  129. dwd Holger, Well, you don't see the avatar, but one assumes that's a good thing. And we've always assumed you're either pseudonymous or not, not both.
  130. Holger Well Daniel implemented vcard-temp support solely because people wanted avatars in anonymous MUCs. And the other problems are real issues as well. People stumble over them in practice, and addressing them complicates the extension considerably.
  131. Holger How about the interop with blocking JIDs, for example.
  132. zuglufttier Does anybody have an idea why "Show offline contacts" is greyed out in gajim from git?
  133. SaltyBones zuglufttier, w4m
  134. zuglufttier What?!
  135. zuglufttier I could set it in the config file by the way.
  136. ThibG MAM in MUCs is nice
  137. ThibG can we have the same thing (past messages directly in the text area) for private conversations, please? :3
  138. zuglufttier ThibG, that does already work.
  139. ThibG doesn't appear to be the case, no
  140. zuglufttier Do you use OMEMO?
  141. ThibG no
  142. zuglufttier The history will only work, if you trust all your devices ;)
  143. ThibG it's there in the History window, but not in the chatwindow itself
  144. zuglufttier Oh, OK.
  145. zuglufttier Ah, that's something different!
  146. zuglufttier And it *should* work as well.
  147. ThibG well it doesn't :p
  148. ThibG it only shows non-MAM history
  149. lovetox yeah ThibG i think i will do this soon
  150. ThibG \o/
  151. lovetox but fist something way more important
  152. lovetox πŸŽ‰ πŸŽ‰ Animated gif support for image preview πŸŽ‰ πŸŽ‰
  153. concerto \o/
  154. Asterix pitchum: I'm not able to reproduce that
  155. Asterix mam muc is nice indeed. but it seems messages are marked as new messages. I don't think it should
  156. Asterix pitchum: Ho yes I can. just wait 5 seconds
  157. cuc hm upgrade to gajim from experimental worked quite good
  158. cuc but omemo is borked
  159. cuc even after removing it and reinstalling it its just not in "installed list"
  160. cuc although the installed verison is showing in the "available" list
  161. Asterix pitchum: fixed
  162. Asterix cuc, do you have an error printed in console?
  163. cuc ah didnt check that wait
  164. cuc there is a debug switch isnt there?
  165. Asterix yes, but without debug, do you have something in console?
  166. cuc 2017-11-20 21:20:23 (W) gajim.plugin_system Plugin omemo not loaded, newer version ofgajim required: 0.16.11.1 < 0.16.11.2
  167. Asterix there is no reason it's not listed in the installed tab, even if a package is missing
  168. cuc πŸ™‚
  169. Asterix haa
  170. Asterix so update Gajim
  171. cuc i guess gajim in debian experimental is too old πŸ™‚
  172. cuc grml
  173. Asterix you need 0.16.11.2
  174. cuc 0.16.11.git20171118-1
  175. cuc is my version
  176. cuc when was .2 released??
  177. cuc 19 or 20th?
  178. cuc πŸ˜‰
  179. Asterix 0.16.11.2 is from yesterday :)
  180. cuc oh come on πŸ™‚
  181. Asterix ho no
  182. Asterix one week ago
  183. Asterix nov 13th
  184. cuc hrm
  185. cuc then the debian package is flawed.. or at least its version string
  186. Asterix check the gajim.__init__.py file
  187. cuc __version__ = "0.16.11.1"
  188. cuc hm why would u package an __init__.py which runs git as user on a root owned file hirachy? why even run git on startup? care to explain .. i know its exp. just curious :)
  189. cuc hm funny bug, gajim sends typing notifications to the muc when its window looses focus...
  190. cuc ah ic u just append the git rev to the versionstring nevermind
  191. Asterix yep
  192. cuc gajim.plugin_system.omemo No module named 'google'
  193. cuc what is that used for?
  194. cuc ok ok i will just use master and forget about the exp. package πŸ˜‰
  195. lovetox .2 was yesterday
  196. lovetox the debian package is ok
  197. lovetox it was just unlucky
  198. lovetox normally we dont change versions so often, but omemo depends on the .2 changes so i had to up it
  199. lovetox google is for google.protobuf
  200. lovetox Asterix, its different then normal mam
  201. lovetox normal mam you can say the message received some device before
  202. lovetox so not really new anymore
  203. lovetox with muc, every message downloaded from mam could be new to you
  204. lovetox if did not join with another resource before
  205. lovetox i see it more like a offline message, this was said while you were away
  206. lovetox just think about if you have a muc with 3 of your family members, and you are offline for some hours, come back, mam fetches history, you want that gajim tells you there are no new messages?
  207. zuglufttier This is where chat markers come into play!