Gajim - 2017-11-10


  1. Tomek bronk, tried, downloaded from debian, unpacked and installed; when running have fatal error that not in git repository... have no experience with that; now when reinstalled 0.16.8 have still same error: fatal: Not a git repository (or any parent up to mount point /home/tomek) Stopping at filesystem boundary (GIT_DISCOVERY_ACROSS_FILESYSTEM not set). 11/10/2017 00:39:21 (E) gajim.gtkgui_helpers Unable to load icon document-edit-symbolic: pygi-error: unknown error (0) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/gajim/gajim.py", line 233, in _activate gtkgui_helpers.load_css() File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/gajim/gtkgui_helpers.py", line 830, in load_css provider.load_from_data(bytes(css.encode())) GLib.Error: gtk-css-provider-error-quark: <data>:14:34'min-width' is not a valid property name (3) ... python-nbxmpp is already the newest version (0.6.0-1).
  2. Tomek bronk, tried, downloaded from debian, unpacked and installed; when running have fatal error that not in git repository... have no experience with that; now when reinstalled 0.16.8 have still same error: fatal: Not a git repository (or any parent up to mount point /home/tomek) Stopping at filesystem boundary (GIT_DISCOVERY_ACROSS_FILESYSTEM not set). 11/10/2017 00:39:21 (E) gajim.gtkgui_helpers Unable to load icon document-edit-symbolic: pygi-error: unknown error (0) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/gajim/gajim.py", line 233, in _activate gtkgui_helpers.load_css() File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/gajim/gtkgui_helpers.py", line 830, in load_css provider.load_from_data(bytes(css.encode())) GLib.Error: gtk-css-provider-error-quark: <data>:14:34'min-width' is not a valid property name (3) ... python-nbxmpp is already the newest version (0.6.0-1).
  3. Tomek bronko, see above
  4. Tomek bronko, see above
  5. lsg https upload work with proxy settings?
  6. lsg https upload work with proxy settings?
  7. lsg https upload work with proxy settings?
  8. lovetox no lsg
  9. lovetox no lsg
  10. lovetox no lsg
  11. lovetox bronko just fyi we have nightly builds of gajim also on the gajim server
  12. lovetox bronko just fyi we have nightly builds of gajim also on the gajim server
  13. lovetox bronko just fyi we have nightly builds of gajim also on the gajim server
  14. lovetox gajim-nightly-default
  15. lovetox gajim-nightly-default
  16. lovetox gajim-nightly-default
  17. lovetox "default" beeing "master" of previous hg repo :)
  18. lovetox "default" beeing "master" of previous hg repo :)
  19. lovetox "default" beeing "master" of previous hg repo :)
  20. SaltyBones is there any omemo able client that I can give to my mom?
  21. SaltyBones is there any omemo able client that I can give to my mom?
  22. SaltyBones is there any omemo able client that I can give to my mom?
  23. Tomek SaltyBones, yes, for desktop it is Gajim with plugin for omemo, there are also others
  24. Tomek SaltyBones, yes, for desktop it is Gajim with plugin for omemo, there are also others
  25. Tomek SaltyBones, yes, for desktop it is Gajim with plugin for omemo, there are also others
  26. SaltyBones yeah, I've had pretty bad experience with the windows client
  27. SaltyBones yeah, I've had pretty bad experience with the windows client
  28. SaltyBones yeah, I've had pretty bad experience with the windows client
  29. SaltyBones and explaining how to install a plugin to my mom....ugh
  30. SaltyBones and explaining how to install a plugin to my mom....ugh
  31. SaltyBones and explaining how to install a plugin to my mom....ugh
  32. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, are you forced to use a jabber omemo client or actually any open source messenger with signal protocol based crypto?
  33. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, are you forced to use a jabber omemo client or actually any open source messenger with signal protocol based crypto?
  34. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, are you forced to use a jabber omemo client or actually any open source messenger with signal protocol based crypto?
  35. SaltyBones andrey.g, I can use whatever the hell I want :)
  36. SaltyBones andrey.g, I can use whatever the hell I want :)
  37. SaltyBones andrey.g, I can use whatever the hell I want :)
  38. SaltyBones we are currently trying signal, jabber and riot ;)
  39. SaltyBones we are currently trying signal, jabber and riot ;)
  40. SaltyBones we are currently trying signal, jabber and riot ;)
  41. andrey.g Then a browser based riot is an easiest solution I know (with a (video-) telephony bonus).
  42. andrey.g Then a browser based riot is an easiest solution I know (with a (video-) telephony bonus).
  43. andrey.g Then a browser based riot is an easiest solution I know (with a (video-) telephony bonus).
  44. ThibG Hm… I have trouble using gajim from git right now. It fails in nbxmpp claiming to receive invalid XML
  45. ThibG Hm… I have trouble using gajim from git right now. It fails in nbxmpp claiming to receive invalid XML
  46. ThibG Hm… I have trouble using gajim from git right now. It fails in nbxmpp claiming to receive invalid XML
  47. ThibG Oh, right, too ancient nbxmpp version
  48. ThibG Oh, right, too ancient nbxmpp version
  49. ThibG Oh, right, too ancient nbxmpp version
  50. marc SaltyBones, thanks for saying plugin installation is too complicated :)
  51. marc SaltyBones, thanks for saying plugin installation is too complicated :)
  52. marc SaltyBones, thanks for saying plugin installation is too complicated :)
  53. marc I think OMEMO should be included by default
  54. marc I think OMEMO should be included by default
  55. marc I think OMEMO should be included by default
  56. marc Good encryption is fundamental nowadays and should be enabled by default
  57. marc Good encryption is fundamental nowadays and should be enabled by default
  58. marc Good encryption is fundamental nowadays and should be enabled by default
  59. mathieui Only things that have been properly vetted should be included by default
  60. mathieui Only things that have been properly vetted should be included by default
  61. mathieui Only things that have been properly vetted should be included by default
  62. mathieui and OMEMO has its share of issues, so enabling it by default is a recipe for frustrating user experience
  63. mathieui and OMEMO has its share of issues, so enabling it by default is a recipe for frustrating user experience
  64. mathieui and OMEMO has its share of issues, so enabling it by default is a recipe for frustrating user experience
  65. marc mathieui, not enabling OMEMO by default but enable/include the plugin by default
  66. marc mathieui, not enabling OMEMO by default but enable/include the plugin by default
  67. marc mathieui, not enabling OMEMO by default but enable/include the plugin by default
  68. marc If OMEMO works without subscription it could be enabled by default probably
  69. marc If OMEMO works without subscription it could be enabled by default probably
  70. marc If OMEMO works without subscription it could be enabled by default probably
  71. SaltyBones andrey.g, but the user interface in riot is absolutely horrendous especially the crypto
  72. SaltyBones andrey.g, but the user interface in riot is absolutely horrendous especially the crypto
  73. SaltyBones andrey.g, but the user interface in riot is absolutely horrendous especially the crypto
  74. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, for me the main issue is electron.
  75. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, for me the main issue is electron.
  76. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, for me the main issue is electron.
  77. SaltyBones well, if you use it in the browser then it isn't
  78. SaltyBones well, if you use it in the browser then it isn't
  79. SaltyBones well, if you use it in the browser then it isn't
  80. andrey.g That's why it is a backup solution for me for now, not a primary one.
  81. andrey.g That's why it is a backup solution for me for now, not a primary one.
  82. andrey.g That's why it is a backup solution for me for now, not a primary one.
  83. SaltyBones I mostly use it because of the call functionality
  84. SaltyBones I mostly use it because of the call functionality
  85. SaltyBones I mostly use it because of the call functionality
  86. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, I'm also.
  87. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, I'm also.
  88. andrey.g SaltyBones‎, I'm also.
  89. Asterix You still have to handle keys, which is quite ununderstandable for noobs
  90. Asterix You still have to handle keys, which is quite ununderstandable for noobs
  91. Asterix You still have to handle keys, which is quite ununderstandable for noobs
  92. Asterix E2E was completly transparent
  93. Asterix E2E was completly transparent
  94. Asterix E2E was completly transparent
  95. Asterix But Gajim only
  96. Asterix But Gajim only
  97. Asterix But Gajim only
  98. marc Asterix, well, we could implement btbv like converstaions
  99. marc Asterix, well, we could implement btbv like converstaions
  100. marc Asterix, well, we could implement btbv like converstaions
  101. marc The key handling for OMEMO in Gajim is really annoying
  102. marc The key handling for OMEMO in Gajim is really annoying
  103. marc The key handling for OMEMO in Gajim is really annoying
  104. Asterix Btbv is auto accept all keys?
  105. Asterix Btbv is auto accept all keys?
  106. Asterix Btbv is auto accept all keys?
  107. marc yes, blind trust before verification
  108. marc yes, blind trust before verification
  109. marc yes, blind trust before verification
  110. Asterix Ok but is it really as secure as now?
  111. Asterix Ok but is it really as secure as now?
  112. Asterix Ok but is it really as secure as now?
  113. marc Well, if a user accepts a key just to get rid of the annyoing key-window or because there is no way to verify the key, BTBV won't change anything IMO
  114. marc Well, if a user accepts a key just to get rid of the annyoing key-window or because there is no way to verify the key, BTBV won't change anything IMO
  115. marc Well, if a user accepts a key just to get rid of the annyoing key-window or because there is no way to verify the key, BTBV won't change anything IMO
  116. SaltyBones we should have some sort of key transparency to avoid forgery
  117. SaltyBones we should have some sort of key transparency to avoid forgery
  118. SaltyBones we should have some sort of key transparency to avoid forgery
  119. zuglufttier I recently thought about this: How is an omemo key generated?
  120. zuglufttier I recently thought about this: How is an omemo key generated?
  121. zuglufttier I recently thought about this: How is an omemo key generated?
  122. zuglufttier Couldn't I just copy one and make my own client with a hardcoded omemo key?
  123. zuglufttier Couldn't I just copy one and make my own client with a hardcoded omemo key?
  124. zuglufttier Couldn't I just copy one and make my own client with a hardcoded omemo key?
  125. viq Or even set it to all zeroes, I guess you probably could, yes
  126. viq Or even set it to all zeroes, I guess you probably could, yes
  127. viq Or even set it to all zeroes, I guess you probably could, yes
  128. lovetox zuglufttier, no you cant
  129. lovetox zuglufttier, no you cant
  130. lovetox zuglufttier, no you cant
  131. viq Ah, someone smarter than me talking, time to shut up ;)
  132. viq Ah, someone smarter than me talking, time to shut up ;)
  133. viq Ah, someone smarter than me talking, time to shut up ;)
  134. lovetox for every public key ( thats what you verify) there is a secret key
  135. lovetox for every public key ( thats what you verify) there is a secret key
  136. lovetox for every public key ( thats what you verify) there is a secret key
  137. lovetox and you cant get the secret key from knowing the public key
  138. lovetox and you cant get the secret key from knowing the public key
  139. lovetox and you cant get the secret key from knowing the public key
  140. zuglufttier Ah, yes, completely forgot about that... But if an attacker got my laptop or phone and was able to capture the private key?
  141. zuglufttier Ah, yes, completely forgot about that... But if an attacker got my laptop or phone and was able to capture the private key?
  142. zuglufttier Ah, yes, completely forgot about that... But if an attacker got my laptop or phone and was able to capture the private key?
  143. andrey.g Regarding omemo in gajim I'd like to see for every device id number (which is good for a program) an info/comment field which identifies device (which is good for a human).
  144. andrey.g Regarding omemo in gajim I'd like to see for every device id number (which is good for a program) an info/comment field which identifies device (which is good for a human).
  145. andrey.g Regarding omemo in gajim I'd like to see for every device id number (which is good for a program) an info/comment field which identifies device (which is good for a human).
  146. andrey.g If signal session could be exported/imported, it would be even better.
  147. andrey.g If signal session could be exported/imported, it would be even better.
  148. andrey.g If signal session could be exported/imported, it would be even better.
  149. lovetox zuglufttier, then he can write messages in your name
  150. lovetox zuglufttier, then he can write messages in your name
  151. lovetox zuglufttier, then he can write messages in your name
  152. lovetox thats why its called secret, because you have to keep it secret
  153. lovetox thats why its called secret, because you have to keep it secret
  154. lovetox thats why its called secret, because you have to keep it secret
  155. lovetox andrey.g, that would not so hard to do, but very low priority as really its for nerds
  156. lovetox andrey.g, that would not so hard to do, but very low priority as really its for nerds
  157. lovetox andrey.g, that would not so hard to do, but very low priority as really its for nerds
  158. andrey.g lovetox‎, regarding export/import I agree :)
  159. andrey.g lovetox‎, regarding export/import I agree :)
  160. andrey.g lovetox‎, regarding export/import I agree :)
  161. lovetox andrey.g regarding import export its incredibly easy with gajim
  162. lovetox andrey.g regarding import export its incredibly easy with gajim
  163. lovetox andrey.g regarding import export its incredibly easy with gajim
  164. lovetox just copy omemo.db
  165. lovetox just copy omemo.db
  166. lovetox just copy omemo.db
  167. lovetox end of story :)
  168. lovetox end of story :)
  169. lovetox end of story :)
  170. andrey.g OK, then I dont't get, why knowing that your account doesn't have unexpected devices is for nerds. Looking at large numbers doesn't help, while looking at description once could instantly see, that's something must be wrong.
  171. andrey.g OK, then I dont't get, why knowing that your account doesn't have unexpected devices is for nerds. Looking at large numbers doesn't help, while looking at description once could instantly see, that's something must be wrong.
  172. andrey.g OK, then I dont't get, why knowing that your account doesn't have unexpected devices is for nerds. Looking at large numbers doesn't help, while looking at description once could instantly see, that's something must be wrong.
  173. andrey.g export/import: so if I shutdown gajim, use python-omemo + xmpp lib + oemo.db to send a message, then start gajim, all will be OK?
  174. andrey.g export/import: so if I shutdown gajim, use python-omemo + xmpp lib + oemo.db to send a message, then start gajim, all will be OK?
  175. andrey.g export/import: so if I shutdown gajim, use python-omemo + xmpp lib + oemo.db to send a message, then start gajim, all will be OK?
  176. andrey.g export/import: so if I shutdown gajim, use python-omemo + xmpp lib + omemo.db to send a message, then start gajim, all will be OK?
  177. andrey.g export/import: so if I shutdown gajim, use python-omemo + xmpp lib + omemo.db to send a message, then start gajim, all will be OK?
  178. andrey.g export/import: so if I shutdown gajim, use python-omemo + xmpp lib + omemo.db to send a message, then start gajim, all will be OK?
  179. lovetox if there is a unknown device it cant have a description, as its unknown to you and you are the one who sets the description
  180. lovetox if there is a unknown device it cant have a description, as its unknown to you and you are the one who sets the description
  181. lovetox if there is a unknown device it cant have a description, as its unknown to you and you are the one who sets the description
  182. lovetox the moment you find out which device it is you trust it or untrust it
  183. lovetox the moment you find out which device it is you trust it or untrust it
  184. lovetox the moment you find out which device it is you trust it or untrust it
  185. lovetox from that moment it is not really important anymore which device it is of yours
  186. lovetox from that moment it is not really important anymore which device it is of yours
  187. lovetox from that moment it is not really important anymore which device it is of yours
  188. lovetox because should some device get lost or stolen or whatever, the process is not, to untrust that device, the process is you hit clear device list, and only actively logged in devices to your account will get active again
  189. lovetox because should some device get lost or stolen or whatever, the process is not, to untrust that device, the process is you hit clear device list, and only actively logged in devices to your account will get active again
  190. lovetox because should some device get lost or stolen or whatever, the process is not, to untrust that device, the process is you hit clear device list, and only actively logged in devices to your account will get active again
  191. lovetox everything else you can instantly untrust
  192. lovetox everything else you can instantly untrust
  193. lovetox everything else you can instantly untrust
  194. lovetox but yeah i see that maybe it would be nice to have sometimes a description
  195. lovetox but yeah i see that maybe it would be nice to have sometimes a description
  196. lovetox but yeah i see that maybe it would be nice to have sometimes a description
  197. lovetox but regular users should not be bothered with this if you ask me
  198. lovetox but regular users should not be bothered with this if you ask me
  199. lovetox but regular users should not be bothered with this if you ask me
  200. SaltyBones I think I disagree
  201. SaltyBones I think I disagree
  202. SaltyBones I think I disagree
  203. SaltyBones due to the ratcheting if you have been communicating with a device you use a key which is different from you your fixed key
  204. SaltyBones due to the ratcheting if you have been communicating with a device you use a key which is different from you your fixed key
  205. SaltyBones due to the ratcheting if you have been communicating with a device you use a key which is different from you your fixed key
  206. SaltyBones this is important for pfs
  207. SaltyBones this is important for pfs
  208. SaltyBones this is important for pfs
  209. SaltyBones now if you just clear devices and start new sessions with everybody you restart this process
  210. SaltyBones now if you just clear devices and start new sessions with everybody you restart this process
  211. SaltyBones now if you just clear devices and start new sessions with everybody you restart this process
  212. SaltyBones it s not immediately obvious to me that this doesn't have problems
  213. SaltyBones it s not immediately obvious to me that this doesn't have problems
  214. SaltyBones it s not immediately obvious to me that this doesn't have problems
  215. SaltyBones specifically if you get my secret key
  216. SaltyBones specifically if you get my secret key
  217. SaltyBones specifically if you get my secret key
  218. SaltyBones you cannot impersonate me to people I have an active sessions with
  219. SaltyBones you cannot impersonate me to people I have an active sessions with
  220. SaltyBones you cannot impersonate me to people I have an active sessions with
  221. SaltyBones because our key has progressed
  222. SaltyBones because our key has progressed
  223. SaltyBones because our key has progressed
  224. SaltyBones but if I reset the devices exactly this goes away
  225. SaltyBones but if I reset the devices exactly this goes away
  226. SaltyBones but if I reset the devices exactly this goes away
  227. lovetox true i have to restart the session, but thats not really a problem
  228. lovetox true i have to restart the session, but thats not really a problem
  229. lovetox true i have to restart the session, but thats not really a problem
  230. lovetox there are multiple ways a session can break so most clients have some way to automatically refresh a session
  231. lovetox there are multiple ways a session can break so most clients have some way to automatically refresh a session
  232. lovetox there are multiple ways a session can break so most clients have some way to automatically refresh a session
  233. dwd If Gajim still supports XEP-0146, and you've already comprised the account, you can just disconnect the client with the session...
  234. dwd If Gajim still supports XEP-0146, and you've already comprised the account, you can just disconnect the client with the session...
  235. dwd If Gajim still supports XEP-0146, and you've already comprised the account, you can just disconnect the client with the session...
  236. lovetox either way it can not be the goal to make something save against an attacker that has your secret eky
  237. lovetox either way it can not be the goal to make something save against an attacker that has your secret eky
  238. lovetox either way it can not be the goal to make something save against an attacker that has your secret eky
  239. lovetox dwd you misunderstand session
  240. lovetox dwd you misunderstand session
  241. lovetox dwd you misunderstand session
  242. lovetox we mean omemo session
  243. lovetox we mean omemo session
  244. lovetox we mean omemo session
  245. lovetox not server xmpp session
  246. lovetox not server xmpp session
  247. lovetox not server xmpp session
  248. dwd lovetox, Right, but once the other clients are offline you can restart OMEMO sessions without interference.
  249. dwd lovetox, Right, but once the other clients are offline you can restart OMEMO sessions without interference.
  250. dwd lovetox, Right, but once the other clients are offline you can restart OMEMO sessions without interference.
  251. lovetox no, a session is not invalid only because someone goes offline
  252. lovetox no, a session is not invalid only because someone goes offline
  253. lovetox no, a session is not invalid only because someone goes offline
  254. SaltyBones lovetox, actually that IS the goal
  255. SaltyBones lovetox, actually that IS the goal
  256. SaltyBones lovetox, actually that IS the goal
  257. lovetox omemo session is saved to harddisk
  258. lovetox omemo session is saved to harddisk
  259. lovetox omemo session is saved to harddisk
  260. zuglufttier SaltyBones, no, nothing can be done if some attackers has your identity.
  261. zuglufttier SaltyBones, no, nothing can be done if some attackers has your identity.
  262. zuglufttier SaltyBones, no, nothing can be done if some attackers has your identity.
  263. SaltyBones the whole point of pfs and backward secrecy is to recover from the case that somebody steals your keys
  264. SaltyBones the whole point of pfs and backward secrecy is to recover from the case that somebody steals your keys
  265. SaltyBones the whole point of pfs and backward secrecy is to recover from the case that somebody steals your keys
  266. dwd lovetox, It is if it's permanently offline, which is trivial because we can change the password.
  267. dwd lovetox, It is if it's permanently offline, which is trivial because we can change the password.
  268. dwd lovetox, It is if it's permanently offline, which is trivial because we can change the password.
  269. SaltyBones zuglufttier, yeah you can ;)
  270. SaltyBones zuglufttier, yeah you can ;)
  271. SaltyBones zuglufttier, yeah you can ;)
  272. SaltyBones the trick is, that an attacker will probably not be able to intercept all your traffic
  273. SaltyBones the trick is, that an attacker will probably not be able to intercept all your traffic
  274. SaltyBones the trick is, that an attacker will probably not be able to intercept all your traffic
  275. SaltyBones so as long as you constantly update your sessions information
  276. SaltyBones so as long as you constantly update your sessions information
  277. SaltyBones so as long as you constantly update your sessions information
  278. dwd SaltyBones, Erm. PFS protects the message content, but not the identity. So future messages will be forgeable once you have the identity key.
  279. dwd SaltyBones, Erm. PFS protects the message content, but not the identity. So future messages will be forgeable once you have the identity key.
  280. dwd SaltyBones, Erm. PFS protects the message content, but not the identity. So future messages will be forgeable once you have the identity key.
  281. SaltyBones an attacker cannot decrypt past traffic and cannot impersonate you with old information
  282. SaltyBones an attacker cannot decrypt past traffic and cannot impersonate you with old information
  283. SaltyBones an attacker cannot decrypt past traffic and cannot impersonate you with old information
  284. lovetox dwd, a omemo session works in a way, that the next message has to be encrypted in a certain way, even knowing the secret key does not help you
  285. lovetox dwd, a omemo session works in a way, that the next message has to be encrypted in a certain way, even knowing the secret key does not help you
  286. lovetox dwd, a omemo session works in a way, that the next message has to be encrypted in a certain way, even knowing the secret key does not help you
  287. lovetox you have to get the other client to dismiss his session with you and build a new one
  288. lovetox you have to get the other client to dismiss his session with you and build a new one
  289. lovetox you have to get the other client to dismiss his session with you and build a new one
  290. SaltyBones yup
  291. SaltyBones yup
  292. SaltyBones yup
  293. lovetox this is not in the xep if and when a client should do this
  294. lovetox this is not in the xep if and when a client should do this
  295. lovetox this is not in the xep if and when a client should do this
  296. lovetox its undefined
  297. lovetox its undefined
  298. lovetox its undefined
  299. lovetox so its not just, go offline
  300. lovetox so its not just, go offline
  301. lovetox so its not just, go offline
  302. dwd lovetox, Right, but you don't need the uncompromised client to help here, just to keep out of the way.
  303. dwd lovetox, Right, but you don't need the uncompromised client to help here, just to keep out of the way.
  304. dwd lovetox, Right, but you don't need the uncompromised client to help here, just to keep out of the way.
  305. lovetox if you want to impersonate one specific device, not just add a new one
  306. lovetox if you want to impersonate one specific device, not just add a new one
  307. lovetox if you want to impersonate one specific device, not just add a new one
  308. lovetox you have
  309. lovetox you have
  310. lovetox you have
  311. lovetox gajim for example will just throw exceptions
  312. lovetox gajim for example will just throw exceptions
  313. lovetox gajim for example will just throw exceptions
  314. lovetox that the messages have wrong properties
  315. lovetox that the messages have wrong properties
  316. lovetox that the messages have wrong properties
  317. lovetox you would have to go to plugin config and delete the sessions
  318. lovetox you would have to go to plugin config and delete the sessions
  319. lovetox you would have to go to plugin config and delete the sessions
  320. dwd lovetox, Sure, the victim would know the account was compromised.
  321. dwd lovetox, Sure, the victim would know the account was compromised.
  322. dwd lovetox, Sure, the victim would know the account was compromised.
  323. lovetox what you can easily do is start a new session impersonating a NEW device, but thats then obvious to the victim as he would have to trust the new fingerprint
  324. lovetox what you can easily do is start a new session impersonating a NEW device, but thats then obvious to the victim as he would have to trust the new fingerprint
  325. lovetox what you can easily do is start a new session impersonating a NEW device, but thats then obvious to the victim as he would have to trust the new fingerprint
  326. lovetox though its unrealistic, that an attacker gets ONLY your private key
  327. lovetox though its unrealistic, that an attacker gets ONLY your private key
  328. lovetox though its unrealistic, that an attacker gets ONLY your private key
  329. dwd lovetox, Isn't there a master identity key for that? I assumed an attacker would have to compromise that to add a new device. Also that you surely don't have to verify each device individually?
  330. dwd lovetox, Isn't there a master identity key for that? I assumed an attacker would have to compromise that to add a new device. Also that you surely don't have to verify each device individually?
  331. dwd lovetox, Isn't there a master identity key for that? I assumed an attacker would have to compromise that to add a new device. Also that you surely don't have to verify each device individually?
  332. lovetox if he has access to your private key, he also has access to all the session data
  333. lovetox if he has access to your private key, he also has access to all the session data
  334. lovetox if he has access to your private key, he also has access to all the session data
  335. SaltyBones dwd, unfortunately you do
  336. SaltyBones dwd, unfortunately you do
  337. SaltyBones dwd, unfortunately you do
  338. SaltyBones one of my big gripes with this shit :)
  339. SaltyBones one of my big gripes with this shit :)
  340. SaltyBones one of my big gripes with this shit :)
  341. dwd SaltyBones, What? That's awful.
  342. dwd SaltyBones, What? That's awful.
  343. dwd SaltyBones, What? That's awful.
  344. lovetox dwd, sure you have to trust each device, like pgp
  345. lovetox dwd, sure you have to trust each device, like pgp
  346. lovetox dwd, sure you have to trust each device, like pgp
  347. SaltyBones i know x)
  348. SaltyBones i know x)
  349. SaltyBones i know x)
  350. lovetox how would this ever work otherwise Oo
  351. lovetox how would this ever work otherwise Oo
  352. lovetox how would this ever work otherwise Oo
  353. SaltyBones fuck gpg, it's horrible and nobody uses it
  354. SaltyBones fuck gpg, it's horrible and nobody uses it
  355. SaltyBones fuck gpg, it's horrible and nobody uses it
  356. lovetox do you think omemo revolutionised private/secret key crypto
  357. lovetox do you think omemo revolutionised private/secret key crypto
  358. lovetox do you think omemo revolutionised private/secret key crypto
  359. SaltyBones lovetox, not even signal has trust for each device separately and they invented the damn protocol
  360. SaltyBones lovetox, not even signal has trust for each device separately and they invented the damn protocol
  361. SaltyBones lovetox, not even signal has trust for each device separately and they invented the damn protocol
  362. dwd lovetox, You'd use a master identity key held somewhere that signs each device key, obviously, building a chain of trust back to a trusted point (the user, the enterprise, whoever)
  363. dwd lovetox, You'd use a master identity key held somewhere that signs each device key, obviously, building a chain of trust back to a trusted point (the user, the enterprise, whoever)
  364. dwd lovetox, You'd use a master identity key held somewhere that signs each device key, obviously, building a chain of trust back to a trusted point (the user, the enterprise, whoever)
  365. Holger SaltyBones: Signal supports multiple devices?
  366. Holger SaltyBones: Signal supports multiple devices?
  367. Holger SaltyBones: Signal supports multiple devices?
  368. lovetox SaltyBones, the have, they just do it automatically and without the user
  369. lovetox SaltyBones, the have, they just do it automatically and without the user
  370. lovetox SaltyBones, the have, they just do it automatically and without the user
  371. dwd lovetox, I mean, that's trivial stuff.
  372. dwd lovetox, I mean, that's trivial stuff.
  373. dwd lovetox, I mean, that's trivial stuff.
  374. lovetox which is not as secure
  375. lovetox which is not as secure
  376. lovetox which is not as secure
  377. lovetox dwd currently there is no key signing with omemo
  378. lovetox dwd currently there is no key signing with omemo
  379. lovetox dwd currently there is no key signing with omemo
  380. SaltyBones dwd, the argument is usually that if you compromise one device real quick it will let you add extra devices you can use for listening...at least that s the one i ve heard
  381. SaltyBones dwd, the argument is usually that if you compromise one device real quick it will let you add extra devices you can use for listening...at least that s the one i ve heard
  382. SaltyBones dwd, the argument is usually that if you compromise one device real quick it will let you add extra devices you can use for listening...at least that s the one i ve heard
  383. hartmann What if someone steals my device and uses it with it's key and it's session? I would notice that my laptop is missing but there is no way to exclude that key/session from future conversations
  384. hartmann What if someone steals my device and uses it with it's key and it's session? I would notice that my laptop is missing but there is no way to exclude that key/session from future conversations
  385. hartmann What if someone steals my device and uses it with it's key and it's session? I would notice that my laptop is missing but there is no way to exclude that key/session from future conversations
  386. SaltyBones Holger, at least they support phone + desktop
  387. SaltyBones Holger, at least they support phone + desktop
  388. SaltyBones Holger, at least they support phone + desktop
  389. SaltyBones hartmann, correct
  390. SaltyBones hartmann, correct
  391. SaltyBones hartmann, correct
  392. lovetox SaltyBones, incorrect
  393. lovetox SaltyBones, incorrect
  394. lovetox SaltyBones, incorrect
  395. Holger SaltyBones: Doesn't the desktop just communicate with your phone, like WhatsApp?
  396. Holger SaltyBones: Doesn't the desktop just communicate with your phone, like WhatsApp?
  397. Holger SaltyBones: Doesn't the desktop just communicate with your phone, like WhatsApp?
  398. dwd hartmann, You could remove the key, I think, from the PEP node.
  399. dwd hartmann, You could remove the key, I think, from the PEP node.
  400. dwd hartmann, You could remove the key, I think, from the PEP node.
  401. lovetox just change your xmpp password, and clear device list
  402. lovetox just change your xmpp password, and clear device list
  403. lovetox just change your xmpp password, and clear device list
  404. SaltyBones Holger, no, for signal it works without the phone
  405. SaltyBones Holger, no, for signal it works without the phone
  406. SaltyBones Holger, no, for signal it works without the phone
  407. Holger Ah.
  408. Holger Ah.
  409. Holger Ah.
  410. hartmann I could maybe untrust my stolen key but that doesn't untrust it for all my buddies
  411. hartmann I could maybe untrust my stolen key but that doesn't untrust it for all my buddies
  412. hartmann I could maybe untrust my stolen key but that doesn't untrust it for all my buddies
  413. lovetox SaltyBones, so how do you loggin on the desktop?
  414. lovetox SaltyBones, so how do you loggin on the desktop?
  415. lovetox SaltyBones, so how do you loggin on the desktop?
  416. lovetox without phone?
  417. lovetox without phone?
  418. lovetox without phone?
  419. SaltyBones hartmann, but you know your laptop has been stolen and you can take appropriate measures :)
  420. SaltyBones hartmann, but you know your laptop has been stolen and you can take appropriate measures :)
  421. SaltyBones hartmann, but you know your laptop has been stolen and you can take appropriate measures :)
  422. dwd hartmann, OCSP/XMPP? :-)
  423. dwd hartmann, OCSP/XMPP? :-)
  424. dwd hartmann, OCSP/XMPP? :-)
  425. SaltyBones lovetox, you do it once by sending a qr code and then it just stores everything
  426. SaltyBones lovetox, you do it once by sending a qr code and then it just stores everything
  427. SaltyBones lovetox, you do it once by sending a qr code and then it just stores everything
  428. lovetox so you need your phone
  429. lovetox so you need your phone
  430. lovetox so you need your phone
  431. SaltyBones s/sending/scanning
  432. SaltyBones s/sending/scanning
  433. SaltyBones s/sending/scanning
  434. SaltyBones yes, once
  435. SaltyBones yes, once
  436. SaltyBones yes, once
  437. lovetox yes but thats the point
  438. lovetox yes but thats the point
  439. lovetox yes but thats the point
  440. hartmann dwd: ocsp?
  441. hartmann dwd: ocsp?
  442. hartmann dwd: ocsp?
  443. SaltyBones oh, is it?
  444. SaltyBones oh, is it?
  445. SaltyBones oh, is it?
  446. SaltyBones i think holger's point was that whatsapp only works when your phone is connected
  447. SaltyBones i think holger's point was that whatsapp only works when your phone is connected
  448. SaltyBones i think holger's point was that whatsapp only works when your phone is connected
  449. SaltyBones because it routes everything through your phone or sth
  450. SaltyBones because it routes everything through your phone or sth
  451. SaltyBones because it routes everything through your phone or sth
  452. dwd hartmann, Something of a joke, really. OCSP ios Online Certificate Status Protocol, used in X.509-based PKI to provide revocation information.
  453. dwd hartmann, Something of a joke, really. OCSP ios Online Certificate Status Protocol, used in X.509-based PKI to provide revocation information.
  454. dwd hartmann, Something of a joke, really. OCSP ios Online Certificate Status Protocol, used in X.509-based PKI to provide revocation information.
  455. lovetox you need your phone to login
  456. lovetox you need your phone to login
  457. lovetox you need your phone to login
  458. lovetox not to route messages
  459. lovetox not to route messages
  460. lovetox not to route messages
  461. hartmann dwd: I was just about to wonder where the blacklist would be stored
  462. hartmann dwd: I was just about to wonder where the blacklist would be stored
  463. hartmann dwd: I was just about to wonder where the blacklist would be stored
  464. SaltyBones well, I give up I don't really know what whatsapp does because I don't have it :)
  465. SaltyBones well, I give up I don't really know what whatsapp does because I don't have it :)
  466. SaltyBones well, I give up I don't really know what whatsapp does because I don't have it :)
  467. dwd hartmann, Well, you have to sign a blacklist with something, so you're back to having a (probably single) identity key somewhere.
  468. dwd hartmann, Well, you have to sign a blacklist with something, so you're back to having a (probably single) identity key somewhere.
  469. dwd hartmann, Well, you have to sign a blacklist with something, so you're back to having a (probably single) identity key somewhere.
  470. dwd Of course, I think a single identity key is a fine and sensible idea, especially if it's rarely used so can be protected independently.
  471. dwd Of course, I think a single identity key is a fine and sensible idea, especially if it's rarely used so can be protected independently.
  472. dwd Of course, I think a single identity key is a fine and sensible idea, especially if it's rarely used so can be protected independently.
  473. lovetox dwd signal doesnt work like that and never will
  474. lovetox dwd signal doesnt work like that and never will
  475. lovetox dwd signal doesnt work like that and never will
  476. hartmann dwd: question is how to protect the master key then because when it gets stolen the attacker could invalidate all "my" keys and leave his active
  477. hartmann dwd: question is how to protect the master key then because when it gets stolen the attacker could invalidate all "my" keys and leave his active
  478. hartmann dwd: question is how to protect the master key then because when it gets stolen the attacker could invalidate all "my" keys and leave his active
  479. SaltyBones and then you use that key to constantly derive new ones using random information
  480. SaltyBones and then you use that key to constantly derive new ones using random information
  481. SaltyBones and then you use that key to constantly derive new ones using random information
  482. lovetox with multiple devices this is horrible
  483. lovetox with multiple devices this is horrible
  484. lovetox with multiple devices this is horrible
  485. SaltyBones and you combine that with some transparency scheme
  486. SaltyBones and you combine that with some transparency scheme
  487. SaltyBones and you combine that with some transparency scheme
  488. lovetox with signal every device has its own key
  489. lovetox with signal every device has its own key
  490. lovetox with signal every device has its own key
  491. SaltyBones and you re on a good way to a somewhat reasonable pki
  492. SaltyBones and you re on a good way to a somewhat reasonable pki
  493. SaltyBones and you re on a good way to a somewhat reasonable pki
  494. SaltyBones hartmann, I think you're focusing too much on completely detectable problems :)
  495. SaltyBones hartmann, I think you're focusing too much on completely detectable problems :)
  496. SaltyBones hartmann, I think you're focusing too much on completely detectable problems :)
  497. dwd hartmann, You can protect it using a decent password and/or hardware and use it rarely, though. It'd never be used *except* to register and invalidate devices.
  498. dwd hartmann, You can protect it using a decent password and/or hardware and use it rarely, though. It'd never be used *except* to register and invalidate devices.
  499. dwd hartmann, You can protect it using a decent password and/or hardware and use it rarely, though. It'd never be used *except* to register and invalidate devices.
  500. lovetox dwd people want to download a app, login, and start chatting, not getting the master key from a different device then start signing shit
  501. lovetox dwd people want to download a app, login, and start chatting, not getting the master key from a different device then start signing shit
  502. lovetox dwd people want to download a app, login, and start chatting, not getting the master key from a different device then start signing shit
  503. dwd lovetox, Sure. We're just talking adding one step for "verify this device", basically like 2FA.
  504. dwd lovetox, Sure. We're just talking adding one step for "verify this device", basically like 2FA.
  505. dwd lovetox, Sure. We're just talking adding one step for "verify this device", basically like 2FA.
  506. hartmann SaltyBones: I'm just having fun in a philosophical debate here
  507. hartmann SaltyBones: I'm just having fun in a philosophical debate here
  508. hartmann SaltyBones: I'm just having fun in a philosophical debate here
  509. hartmann dwd: and it must not get lost
  510. hartmann dwd: and it must not get lost
  511. hartmann dwd: and it must not get lost
  512. lovetox if that would work, everyone would use PGP
  513. lovetox if that would work, everyone would use PGP
  514. lovetox if that would work, everyone would use PGP
  515. SaltyBones hartmann, me too :)
  516. SaltyBones hartmann, me too :)
  517. SaltyBones hartmann, me too :)
  518. mdosch Asterix: > Btbv is auto accept all keys? https://gultsch.de/trust.html
  519. mdosch Asterix: > Btbv is auto accept all keys? https://gultsch.de/trust.html
  520. mdosch Asterix: > Btbv is auto accept all keys? https://gultsch.de/trust.html
  521. lovetox for verifing another device its already dead easy
  522. lovetox for verifing another device its already dead easy
  523. lovetox for verifing another device its already dead easy
  524. lovetox get his device physically and scan his fingerprint
  525. lovetox get his device physically and scan his fingerprint
  526. lovetox get his device physically and scan his fingerprint
  527. SaltyBones dwd, lovetox is right, this all needs to work transparently unless there is a problem
  528. SaltyBones dwd, lovetox is right, this all needs to work transparently unless there is a problem
  529. SaltyBones dwd, lovetox is right, this all needs to work transparently unless there is a problem
  530. SaltyBones lovetox, that is not easy at all
  531. SaltyBones lovetox, that is not easy at all
  532. SaltyBones lovetox, that is not easy at all
  533. SaltyBones i have many contacts in germany where i used to live but i never see them
  534. SaltyBones i have many contacts in germany where i used to live but i never see them
  535. SaltyBones i have many contacts in germany where i used to live but i never see them
  536. lovetox people search constantly for the holy grail
  537. lovetox people search constantly for the holy grail
  538. lovetox people search constantly for the holy grail
  539. SaltyBones you know how many times I have reinstalled my devices since then?
  540. SaltyBones you know how many times I have reinstalled my devices since then?
  541. SaltyBones you know how many times I have reinstalled my devices since then?
  542. hartmann One could outsource the problem to gpg by putting all fingerprints onto a website and sign the info with gpg. Or x509. Or OpenBSD signify
  543. hartmann One could outsource the problem to gpg by putting all fingerprints onto a website and sign the info with gpg. Or x509. Or OpenBSD signify
  544. hartmann One could outsource the problem to gpg by putting all fingerprints onto a website and sign the info with gpg. Or x509. Or OpenBSD signify
  545. SaltyBones lovetox, as they should :D
  546. SaltyBones lovetox, as they should :D
  547. SaltyBones lovetox, as they should :D
  548. lovetox how can i be sure someone is on the other end, whithout checking it physically
  549. lovetox how can i be sure someone is on the other end, whithout checking it physically
  550. lovetox how can i be sure someone is on the other end, whithout checking it physically
  551. dwd hartmann, One of my gripes with OMEMO is that it disconnects from those options.
  552. dwd hartmann, One of my gripes with OMEMO is that it disconnects from those options.
  553. dwd hartmann, One of my gripes with OMEMO is that it disconnects from those options.
  554. lovetox but thats impossible
  555. lovetox but thats impossible
  556. lovetox but thats impossible
  557. SaltyBones lovetox, if the old secure channel isn't compromised I can simply tell people that I have a new key
  558. SaltyBones lovetox, if the old secure channel isn't compromised I can simply tell people that I have a new key
  559. SaltyBones lovetox, if the old secure channel isn't compromised I can simply tell people that I have a new key
  560. lovetox no machine can ever make 100% sure, you have to check it physcially
  561. lovetox no machine can ever make 100% sure, you have to check it physcially
  562. lovetox no machine can ever make 100% sure, you have to check it physcially
  563. SaltyBones except of course I shouldn't have to do that manually
  564. SaltyBones except of course I shouldn't have to do that manually
  565. SaltyBones except of course I shouldn't have to do that manually
  566. SaltyBones 100 % sure of what?
  567. SaltyBones 100 % sure of what?
  568. SaltyBones 100 % sure of what?
  569. zuglufttier This is the question every time: Can I trust someone without meeting them phyiscally?
  570. zuglufttier This is the question every time: Can I trust someone without meeting them phyiscally?
  571. zuglufttier This is the question every time: Can I trust someone without meeting them phyiscally?
  572. lovetox no code can do the verifing for you
  573. lovetox no code can do the verifing for you
  574. lovetox no code can do the verifing for you
  575. lovetox you can implement things that make it reasonable save
  576. lovetox you can implement things that make it reasonable save
  577. lovetox you can implement things that make it reasonable save
  578. SaltyBones lovetox, as long as there is SOME form of establishing trust, it can
  579. SaltyBones lovetox, as long as there is SOME form of establishing trust, it can
  580. SaltyBones lovetox, as long as there is SOME form of establishing trust, it can
  581. zuglufttier Exactly, either you verify or you trust blindly.
  582. zuglufttier Exactly, either you verify or you trust blindly.
  583. zuglufttier Exactly, either you verify or you trust blindly.
  584. lovetox but there will always a gap, if you dont check it physcially
  585. lovetox but there will always a gap, if you dont check it physcially
  586. lovetox but there will always a gap, if you dont check it physcially
  587. lovetox SaltyBones, of course if you have already one secure channel...
  588. lovetox SaltyBones, of course if you have already one secure channel...
  589. lovetox SaltyBones, of course if you have already one secure channel...
  590. SaltyBones especially in the case of omemo when I they verified my old key why should I not be able to tell them from my desktop that I have a new phone?
  591. SaltyBones especially in the case of omemo when I they verified my old key why should I not be able to tell them from my desktop that I have a new phone?
  592. SaltyBones especially in the case of omemo when I they verified my old key why should I not be able to tell them from my desktop that I have a new phone?
  593. dwd lovetox, Well, that's the thing. If you have an identitiy key on some device (like your phone), then the trust relationship is between identity keys, and adding a device doesn't require that new device to be trusted by anyone directly but yourself.
  594. dwd lovetox, Well, that's the thing. If you have an identitiy key on some device (like your phone), then the trust relationship is between identity keys, and adding a device doesn't require that new device to be trusted by anyone directly but yourself.
  595. dwd lovetox, Well, that's the thing. If you have an identitiy key on some device (like your phone), then the trust relationship is between identity keys, and adding a device doesn't require that new device to be trusted by anyone directly but yourself.
  596. dwd SaltyBones, IOW, you don't tell *them*. You just bless the device from your desktop and everyone else can trust it.
  597. dwd SaltyBones, IOW, you don't tell *them*. You just bless the device from your desktop and everyone else can trust it.
  598. dwd SaltyBones, IOW, you don't tell *them*. You just bless the device from your desktop and everyone else can trust it.
  599. dwd thinks people make this crypto stuff harder than it needs to be.
  600. dwd thinks people make this crypto stuff harder than it needs to be.
  601. dwd thinks people make this crypto stuff harder than it needs to be.
  602. dwd Of course, if you use PRE, then the existence of the device key is something nobody needs to know about other than you.
  603. dwd Of course, if you use PRE, then the existence of the device key is something nobody needs to know about other than you.
  604. dwd Of course, if you use PRE, then the existence of the device key is something nobody needs to know about other than you.
  605. SaltyBones dwd, that's what I mean ;)
  606. SaltyBones dwd, that's what I mean ;)
  607. SaltyBones dwd, that's what I mean ;)
  608. hartmann Pre?
  609. hartmann Pre?
  610. hartmann Pre?
  611. dwd Proxy RE[en]cryption.
  612. dwd Proxy RE[en]cryption.
  613. dwd Proxy RE[en]cryption.
  614. dwd Cryptographic magic than means a trusted MITM can re-encrypt, but not decrypt, messages passing through it.
  615. dwd Cryptographic magic than means a trusted MITM can re-encrypt, but not decrypt, messages passing through it.
  616. dwd Cryptographic magic than means a trusted MITM can re-encrypt, but not decrypt, messages passing through it.
  617. dwd But only recrypt to keys its allowed to, obviously.
  618. dwd But only recrypt to keys its allowed to, obviously.
  619. dwd But only recrypt to keys its allowed to, obviously.
  620. SaltyBones well, the use cases for PRE are super small
  621. SaltyBones well, the use cases for PRE are super small
  622. SaltyBones well, the use cases for PRE are super small
  623. dwd Some PRE systems allow signatures to be sort-of-recrypted on the way out, as well.
  624. dwd Some PRE systems allow signatures to be sort-of-recrypted on the way out, as well.
  625. dwd Some PRE systems allow signatures to be sort-of-recrypted on the way out, as well.
  626. SaltyBones it is a very, very specific tool
  627. SaltyBones it is a very, very specific tool
  628. SaltyBones it is a very, very specific tool
  629. hartmann How does that work? How can it encrypt things that others can decrypt without having the plain text version?
  630. hartmann How does that work? How can it encrypt things that others can decrypt without having the plain text version?
  631. hartmann How does that work? How can it encrypt things that others can decrypt without having the plain text version?
  632. SaltyBones there is the quote I was looking for: "The magic of cryptography is such that things that are clearly impossible are often straightforward and vice-versa."
  633. SaltyBones there is the quote I was looking for: "The magic of cryptography is such that things that are clearly impossible are often straightforward and vice-versa."
  634. SaltyBones there is the quote I was looking for: "The magic of cryptography is such that things that are clearly impossible are often straightforward and vice-versa."
  635. dwd SaltyBones, Really? I'd say it'd work for XMPP just fine. Have a PRE Proxy on the server for each account, controlled by the user, and one for each chatroom controlled by the chatroom admin.
  636. dwd SaltyBones, Really? I'd say it'd work for XMPP just fine. Have a PRE Proxy on the server for each account, controlled by the user, and one for each chatroom controlled by the chatroom admin.
  637. dwd SaltyBones, Really? I'd say it'd work for XMPP just fine. Have a PRE Proxy on the server for each account, controlled by the user, and one for each chatroom controlled by the chatroom admin.
  638. dwd hartmann, Magic. I think you sacrifice a crow for each message.
  639. dwd hartmann, Magic. I think you sacrifice a crow for each message.
  640. dwd hartmann, Magic. I think you sacrifice a crow for each message.
  641. SaltyBones dwd, it's not clear to me how you are going to combine this with forward and backward secrecy
  642. SaltyBones dwd, it's not clear to me how you are going to combine this with forward and backward secrecy
  643. SaltyBones dwd, it's not clear to me how you are going to combine this with forward and backward secrecy
  644. SaltyBones the guarantees omemo provides are better than traditional public key crypto
  645. SaltyBones the guarantees omemo provides are better than traditional public key crypto
  646. SaltyBones the guarantees omemo provides are better than traditional public key crypto
  647. dwd SaltyBones, DH and ephemeral keys, I'd have thought. If you want it - which you might not for MUCs.
  648. dwd SaltyBones, DH and ephemeral keys, I'd have thought. If you want it - which you might not for MUCs.
  649. dwd SaltyBones, DH and ephemeral keys, I'd have thought. If you want it - which you might not for MUCs.
  650. dwd SaltyBones, Different. Not always better. They're laser-focussed on one particular threat model, which only has relevance for individual consumers and not enterprise or governments.
  651. dwd SaltyBones, Different. Not always better. They're laser-focussed on one particular threat model, which only has relevance for individual consumers and not enterprise or governments.
  652. dwd SaltyBones, Different. Not always better. They're laser-focussed on one particular threat model, which only has relevance for individual consumers and not enterprise or governments.
  653. Holger ... or 1:1 chat. I think PFS is a severe UX problem for many users.
  654. Holger ... or 1:1 chat. I think PFS is a severe UX problem for many users.
  655. Holger ... or 1:1 chat. I think PFS is a severe UX problem for many users.
  656. dwd Holger, +1 to that. It breaks various expectations, I agree.
  657. dwd Holger, +1 to that. It breaks various expectations, I agree.
  658. dwd Holger, +1 to that. It breaks various expectations, I agree.
  659. SaltyBones dwd, yeah pfs is weird
  660. SaltyBones dwd, yeah pfs is weird
  661. SaltyBones dwd, yeah pfs is weird
  662. SaltyBones most people have chat history on the device anyway :)
  663. SaltyBones most people have chat history on the device anyway :)
  664. SaltyBones most people have chat history on the device anyway :)
  665. Holger And I don't see what on earth it buys you in practice for day-to-day IM usage. If the NSA breaks my device to get my private key, it can just read the unencrypted messages from my device's storage.
  666. Holger And I don't see what on earth it buys you in practice for day-to-day IM usage. If the NSA breaks my device to get my private key, it can just read the unencrypted messages from my device's storage.
  667. Holger And I don't see what on earth it buys you in practice for day-to-day IM usage. If the NSA breaks my device to get my private key, it can just read the unencrypted messages from my device's storage.
  668. Holger Right.
  669. Holger Right.
  670. Holger Right.
  671. SaltyBones but of course PFS works across reinstalls etc
  672. SaltyBones but of course PFS works across reinstalls etc
  673. SaltyBones but of course PFS works across reinstalls etc
  674. dwd SaltyBones, In ancient times, XMPP had a (stupid) way of requesting that each end stop archiving messages for a conversation, and I think PFS fits there.
  675. dwd SaltyBones, In ancient times, XMPP had a (stupid) way of requesting that each end stop archiving messages for a conversation, and I think PFS fits there.
  676. dwd SaltyBones, In ancient times, XMPP had a (stupid) way of requesting that each end stop archiving messages for a conversation, and I think PFS fits there.
  677. concerto .o(and so is not being sent keys until one sends a message to someone.)
  678. concerto .o(and so is not being sent keys until one sends a message to someone.)
  679. concerto .o(and so is not being sent keys until one sends a message to someone.)
  680. SaltyBones while in the traditional threat model actually deleting this local history will not make it disappear
  681. SaltyBones while in the traditional threat model actually deleting this local history will not make it disappear
  682. SaltyBones while in the traditional threat model actually deleting this local history will not make it disappear
  683. concerto .o(and so is not being sent keys until one sends a message to someone. Can clients atleast start mentioning it in an obvious place to users?)
  684. concerto .o(and so is not being sent keys until one sends a message to someone. Can clients atleast start mentioning it in an obvious place to users?)
  685. concerto .o(and so is not being sent keys until one sends a message to someone. Can clients atleast start mentioning it in an obvious place to users?)
  686. concerto Plugin request - something to load more history if/as one scrolls up.
  687. concerto Plugin request - something to load more history if/as one scrolls up.
  688. concerto Plugin request - something to load more history if/as one scrolls up.
  689. concerto (Sorry to add nothing relevant to this discussion, but) plugin request - something to load more history if/as one scrolls up.
  690. concerto (Sorry to add nothing relevant to this discussion, but) plugin request - something to load more history if/as one scrolls up.
  691. concerto (Sorry to add nothing relevant to this discussion, but) plugin request - something to load more history if/as one scrolls up.
  692. dwd SaltyBones, Doesn't in any threat model, unless you're talking destroying every one of the user's devices. With fire.
  693. dwd SaltyBones, Doesn't in any threat model, unless you're talking destroying every one of the user's devices. With fire.
  694. dwd SaltyBones, Doesn't in any threat model, unless you're talking destroying every one of the user's devices. With fire.
  695. lovetox concerto we have to do it that way
  696. lovetox concerto we have to do it that way
  697. lovetox concerto we have to do it that way
  698. lovetox there is nothing we can do about that
  699. lovetox there is nothing we can do about that
  700. lovetox there is nothing we can do about that
  701. lovetox but normally key pull needs two seconds
  702. lovetox but normally key pull needs two seconds
  703. lovetox but normally key pull needs two seconds
  704. concerto lovetox: then it'd be nice to mention (perhaps when activating OMEMO) what will and won't happen till one sends a message.
  705. concerto lovetox: then it'd be nice to mention (perhaps when activating OMEMO) what will and won't happen till one sends a message.
  706. concerto lovetox: then it'd be nice to mention (perhaps when activating OMEMO) what will and won't happen till one sends a message.
  707. SaltyBones dwd, well...depends on your point of view but the point is even if you delete it on every one of the users devices you can still decrypt old traffic if you get your hands on the key
  708. SaltyBones dwd, well...depends on your point of view but the point is even if you delete it on every one of the users devices you can still decrypt old traffic if you get your hands on the key
  709. SaltyBones dwd, well...depends on your point of view but the point is even if you delete it on every one of the users devices you can still decrypt old traffic if you get your hands on the key
  710. lovetox i dont see that, why would a user care about that
  711. lovetox i dont see that, why would a user care about that
  712. lovetox i dont see that, why would a user care about that
  713. lovetox im all for doing UI that says "waiting for keys"
  714. lovetox im all for doing UI that says "waiting for keys"
  715. lovetox im all for doing UI that says "waiting for keys"
  716. lovetox or something like that
  717. lovetox or something like that
  718. lovetox or something like that
  719. lovetox but why would i tell someone at plugin activation
  720. lovetox but why would i tell someone at plugin activation
  721. lovetox but why would i tell someone at plugin activation
  722. SaltyBones lovetox, the reason users care is, that it doesn't fucking work very well ;D
  723. SaltyBones lovetox, the reason users care is, that it doesn't fucking work very well ;D
  724. SaltyBones lovetox, the reason users care is, that it doesn't fucking work very well ;D
  725. lovetox that has other reasons, that should be fixed
  726. lovetox that has other reasons, that should be fixed
  727. lovetox that has other reasons, that should be fixed
  728. concerto lovetox: people tend to add someone, enable encryption, not send any message for a long time, and all sorts of weird problems ensue.
  729. concerto lovetox: people tend to add someone, enable encryption, not send any message for a long time, and all sorts of weird problems ensue.
  730. concerto lovetox: people tend to add someone, enable encryption, not send any message for a long time, and all sorts of weird problems ensue.
  731. SaltyBones Sorry, I know you guys are doing a good job, that sounded harsher than I meant it.
  732. SaltyBones Sorry, I know you guys are doing a good job, that sounded harsher than I meant it.
  733. SaltyBones Sorry, I know you guys are doing a good job, that sounded harsher than I meant it.
  734. dwd SaltyBones, Sure, but it's crypto. Haven't we trained users that Crypto is shiny but doesn't work properly?
  735. dwd SaltyBones, Sure, but it's crypto. Haven't we trained users that Crypto is shiny but doesn't work properly?
  736. dwd SaltyBones, Sure, but it's crypto. Haven't we trained users that Crypto is shiny but doesn't work properly?
  737. lovetox no SaltyBones, i agree distributing of keys has issues
  738. lovetox no SaltyBones, i agree distributing of keys has issues
  739. lovetox no SaltyBones, i agree distributing of keys has issues
  740. lovetox but its mostly a server issue
  741. lovetox but its mostly a server issue
  742. lovetox but its mostly a server issue
  743. SaltyBones dwd, isn't it the opposite? it's not shiny but it works?
  744. SaltyBones dwd, isn't it the opposite? it's not shiny but it works?
  745. SaltyBones dwd, isn't it the opposite? it's not shiny but it works?
  746. dwd SaltyBones, Actually I suspect it's neither shiny nor working.
  747. dwd SaltyBones, Actually I suspect it's neither shiny nor working.
  748. dwd SaltyBones, Actually I suspect it's neither shiny nor working.
  749. concerto lovetox: for the longest time even I didn't know I was supposed to send someone something. Undocumented behaviour I had to find out by trial and error.
  750. concerto lovetox: for the longest time even I didn't know I was supposed to send someone something. Undocumented behaviour I had to find out by trial and error.
  751. concerto lovetox: for the longest time even I didn't know I was supposed to send someone something. Undocumented behaviour I had to find out by trial and error.
  752. concerto (and even Conversations is guilty of this one.)
  753. concerto (and even Conversations is guilty of this one.)
  754. concerto (and even Conversations is guilty of this one.)
  755. lovetox i dont get it concerto, you dont have to send something
  756. lovetox i dont get it concerto, you dont have to send something
  757. lovetox i dont get it concerto, you dont have to send something
  758. lovetox if you send no message there is simply no encryption
  759. lovetox if you send no message there is simply no encryption
  760. lovetox if you send no message there is simply no encryption
  761. lovetox why would there be
  762. lovetox why would there be
  763. lovetox why would there be
  764. lovetox if there is nothing to encrypt
  765. lovetox if there is nothing to encrypt
  766. lovetox if there is nothing to encrypt
  767. lovetox This only means that on the first message it builds a session and needs a bit longer
  768. lovetox This only means that on the first message it builds a session and needs a bit longer
  769. lovetox This only means that on the first message it builds a session and needs a bit longer
  770. concerto lovetox: I can't explain the issues the user faces right now, because I haven't added anyone new in a while (and when I do, I'm careful to send something from both ends when adding contacts for people). It's also possible that the issues I experienced have been fixed by recent OMEMO-related developments.
  771. concerto lovetox: I can't explain the issues the user faces right now, because I haven't added anyone new in a while (and when I do, I'm careful to send something from both ends when adding contacts for people). It's also possible that the issues I experienced have been fixed by recent OMEMO-related developments.
  772. concerto lovetox: I can't explain the issues the user faces right now, because I haven't added anyone new in a while (and when I do, I'm careful to send something from both ends when adding contacts for people). It's also possible that the issues I experienced have been fixed by recent OMEMO-related developments.
  773. SaltyBones dwd, you can assume that but then this discussion because pretty boring and you can just enjoy your life without crypto :)
  774. SaltyBones dwd, you can assume that but then this discussion because pretty boring and you can just enjoy your life without crypto :)
  775. SaltyBones dwd, you can assume that but then this discussion because pretty boring and you can just enjoy your life without crypto :)
  776. concerto Okay, one common problem I can remember is - I add someone and later on I can't enable OMEMO on my end because I don't get any keys. (Maybe because they're offline?)
  777. concerto Okay, one common problem I can remember is - I add someone and later on I can't enable OMEMO on my end because I don't get any keys. (Maybe because they're offline?)
  778. concerto Okay, one common problem I can remember is - I add someone and later on I can't enable OMEMO on my end because I don't get any keys. (Maybe because they're offline?)
  779. concerto lovetox: Okay, one common problem I can remember is - I add someone and later on I can't enable OMEMO on my end because I don't get any keys. (Maybe because they're offline?)
  780. concerto lovetox: Okay, one common problem I can remember is - I add someone and later on I can't enable OMEMO on my end because I don't get any keys. (Maybe because they're offline?)
  781. concerto lovetox: Okay, one common problem I can remember is - I add someone and later on I can't enable OMEMO on my end because I don't get any keys. (Maybe because they're offline?)
  782. concerto (whoops)
  783. concerto (whoops)
  784. concerto (whoops)
  785. concerto ^ lovetox
  786. concerto ^ lovetox
  787. concerto ^ lovetox
  788. zuglufttier concerto, you enable OMEMO any time and just start typing, then the keys will be exchanged.
  789. zuglufttier concerto, you enable OMEMO any time and just start typing, then the keys will be exchanged.
  790. zuglufttier concerto, you enable OMEMO any time and just start typing, then the keys will be exchanged.
  791. concerto zuglufttier: I just said that when that happens, I don't get any keys to trust. o.o
  792. concerto zuglufttier: I just said that when that happens, I don't get any keys to trust. o.o
  793. concerto zuglufttier: I just said that when that happens, I don't get any keys to trust. o.o
  794. zuglufttier concerto, every time or with just one contact?
  795. zuglufttier concerto, every time or with just one contact?
  796. zuglufttier concerto, every time or with just one contact?
  797. concerto zuglufttier: it has happened a couple times in the past when I added new contacts.
  798. concerto zuglufttier: it has happened a couple times in the past when I added new contacts.
  799. concerto zuglufttier: it has happened a couple times in the past when I added new contacts.
  800. zuglufttier And OMEMO isn't working with any of those contacts right now?
  801. zuglufttier And OMEMO isn't working with any of those contacts right now?
  802. zuglufttier And OMEMO isn't working with any of those contacts right now?
  803. zuglufttier After all, this is all pretty new...
  804. zuglufttier After all, this is all pretty new...
  805. zuglufttier After all, this is all pretty new...
  806. SaltyBones as a matter of fact I have this problem with one of my contacts
  807. SaltyBones as a matter of fact I have this problem with one of my contacts
  808. SaltyBones as a matter of fact I have this problem with one of my contacts
  809. SaltyBones my gajim never gets any fingerprints
  810. SaltyBones my gajim never gets any fingerprints
  811. SaltyBones my gajim never gets any fingerprints
  812. SaltyBones simply cannot talk to them except with my phone ^^
  813. SaltyBones simply cannot talk to them except with my phone ^^
  814. SaltyBones simply cannot talk to them except with my phone ^^
  815. concerto zuglufttier: it works, eventually. I cannot remember what got it working.
  816. concerto zuglufttier: it works, eventually. I cannot remember what got it working.
  817. concerto zuglufttier: it works, eventually. I cannot remember what got it working.
  818. zuglufttier concerto, there were some changes to OMEMO related features on clients and servers so your problems might be a thing of the past.
  819. zuglufttier concerto, there were some changes to OMEMO related features on clients and servers so your problems might be a thing of the past.
  820. zuglufttier concerto, there were some changes to OMEMO related features on clients and servers so your problems might be a thing of the past.
  821. concerto That's great :D
  822. concerto That's great :D
  823. concerto That's great :D
  824. zuglufttier If not, report back here 😉
  825. zuglufttier If not, report back here 😉
  826. zuglufttier If not, report back here 😉
  827. zuglufttier There's a pretty good chance someone might be able to help.
  828. zuglufttier There's a pretty good chance someone might be able to help.
  829. zuglufttier There's a pretty good chance someone might be able to help.
  830. SaltyBones zuglufttier, help me then! :)
  831. SaltyBones zuglufttier, help me then! :)
  832. SaltyBones zuglufttier, help me then! :)
  833. zuglufttier SaltyBones, what client does the contact use? A different server than yours?
  834. zuglufttier SaltyBones, what client does the contact use? A different server than yours?
  835. zuglufttier SaltyBones, what client does the contact use? A different server than yours?
  836. SaltyBones same server and conversations
  837. SaltyBones same server and conversations
  838. SaltyBones same server and conversations
  839. SaltyBones i debugged a bit with lovetox and apparently my server never sends a device list for this contact
  840. SaltyBones i debugged a bit with lovetox and apparently my server never sends a device list for this contact
  841. SaltyBones i debugged a bit with lovetox and apparently my server never sends a device list for this contact
  842. zuglufttier And Conversations is working for both of you?
  843. zuglufttier And Conversations is working for both of you?
  844. zuglufttier And Conversations is working for both of you?
  845. SaltyBones don't ask me why though it's an ejabberd 17.09
  846. SaltyBones don't ask me why though it's an ejabberd 17.09
  847. SaltyBones don't ask me why though it's an ejabberd 17.09
  848. zuglufttier I'd register a test account on that server and start gajim with that in a virtual machine or a temporary config...
  849. zuglufttier I'd register a test account on that server and start gajim with that in a virtual machine or a temporary config...
  850. zuglufttier I'd register a test account on that server and start gajim with that in a virtual machine or a temporary config...
  851. SaltyBones to do what?
  852. SaltyBones to do what?
  853. SaltyBones to do what?
  854. SaltyBones I know that it works in principle, it works for my other users and it has worked for me in the past. :)
  855. SaltyBones I know that it works in principle, it works for my other users and it has worked for me in the past. :)
  856. SaltyBones I know that it works in principle, it works for my other users and it has worked for me in the past. :)
  857. SaltyBones Holger, can you think of any reason why ejabberd might not send a device list for some user?
  858. SaltyBones Holger, can you think of any reason why ejabberd might not send a device list for some user?
  859. SaltyBones Holger, can you think of any reason why ejabberd might not send a device list for some user?
  860. zuglufttier To debug the error.
  861. zuglufttier To debug the error.
  862. zuglufttier To debug the error.
  863. Holger SaltyBones: "it works for my other users" -- you received device lists from them while they were using the same current ejabberd version?
  864. Holger SaltyBones: "it works for my other users" -- you received device lists from them while they were using the same current ejabberd version?
  865. Holger SaltyBones: "it works for my other users" -- you received device lists from them while they were using the same current ejabberd version?
  866. Holger SaltyBones: There's been some changes to the PEP code I haven't looked at yet. So I wouldn't rule out some server-side regression. But sounds unlikely if it works with other accounts.
  867. Holger SaltyBones: There's been some changes to the PEP code I haven't looked at yet. So I wouldn't rule out some server-side regression. But sounds unlikely if it works with other accounts.
  868. Holger SaltyBones: There's been some changes to the PEP code I haven't looked at yet. So I wouldn't rule out some server-side regression. But sounds unlikely if it works with other accounts.
  869. Holger SaltyBones: Anyway, no idea. The account might've borked his PEP node's configuration, some versions of some clients did that. Would have to be tracked down in order to track it down :-)
  870. Holger SaltyBones: Anyway, no idea. The account might've borked his PEP node's configuration, some versions of some clients did that. Would have to be tracked down in order to track it down :-)
  871. Holger SaltyBones: Anyway, no idea. The account might've borked his PEP node's configuration, some versions of some clients did that. Would have to be tracked down in order to track it down :-)
  872. SaltyBones x)
  873. SaltyBones x)
  874. SaltyBones x)
  875. zuglufttier And that's what I mean, create a clean test environment to find the exact error. You have to minimize the amount of possible errors somewhere.
  876. zuglufttier And that's what I mean, create a clean test environment to find the exact error. You have to minimize the amount of possible errors somewhere.
  877. zuglufttier And that's what I mean, create a clean test environment to find the exact error. You have to minimize the amount of possible errors somewhere.
  878. zuglufttier It's a lot of work... I'd wait if the problem is solved later on 😀
  879. zuglufttier It's a lot of work... I'd wait if the problem is solved later on 😀
  880. zuglufttier It's a lot of work... I'd wait if the problem is solved later on 😀
  881. rom1dep > The account might've borked his PEP node's configuration, some versions of some clients did that. Would have to be tracked down in order to track it down :-) Holger: do you have any pointers/test cases to look into it? I have a contact for which omemo messages get eaten sometimes, and conversations throws a toast message saying "unable to fetch omemo key" occasionally
  882. rom1dep > The account might've borked his PEP node's configuration, some versions of some clients did that. Would have to be tracked down in order to track it down :-) Holger: do you have any pointers/test cases to look into it? I have a contact for which omemo messages get eaten sometimes, and conversations throws a toast message saying "unable to fetch omemo key" occasionally
  883. rom1dep > The account might've borked his PEP node's configuration, some versions of some clients did that. Would have to be tracked down in order to track it down :-) Holger: do you have any pointers/test cases to look into it? I have a contact for which omemo messages get eaten sometimes, and conversations throws a toast message saying "unable to fetch omemo key" occasionally
  884. Holger rom1dep: Local/remote contact? If you're using Gajim's OMEMO client, maybe start with dumping the stream from the XML console while OMEMO negotiation takes place?
  885. Holger rom1dep: Local/remote contact? If you're using Gajim's OMEMO client, maybe start with dumping the stream from the XML console while OMEMO negotiation takes place?
  886. Holger rom1dep: Local/remote contact? If you're using Gajim's OMEMO client, maybe start with dumping the stream from the XML console while OMEMO negotiation takes place?
  887. Holger *Gajim's OMEMO plugin
  888. Holger *Gajim's OMEMO plugin
  889. Holger *Gajim's OMEMO plugin
  890. rom1dep Holger: conversations to conversations over ejabberd 17.09
  891. rom1dep Holger: conversations to conversations over ejabberd 17.09
  892. rom1dep Holger: conversations to conversations over ejabberd 17.09
  893. Holger So a local contact?
  894. Holger So a local contact?
  895. Holger So a local contact?
  896. rom1dep Yes, same server
  897. rom1dep Yes, same server
  898. rom1dep Yes, same server
  899. Holger Yes I'm just suggesting Gajim because it's easier to dump the stream that way.
  900. Holger Yes I'm just suggesting Gajim because it's easier to dump the stream that way.
  901. Holger Yes I'm just suggesting Gajim because it's easier to dump the stream that way.
  902. Holger You could "ejabberdctl set-loglevel 5" on the server and then grep the traffic out of the ejabberd.log instead.
  903. Holger You could "ejabberdctl set-loglevel 5" on the server and then grep the traffic out of the ejabberd.log instead.
  904. Holger You could "ejabberdctl set-loglevel 5" on the server and then grep the traffic out of the ejabberd.log instead.
  905. Holger (This is all a bit off-topic in here I guess.)
  906. Holger (This is all a bit off-topic in here I guess.)
  907. Holger (This is all a bit off-topic in here I guess.)
  908. rom1dep When does the negotiation take place? Once per receiver's session?
  909. rom1dep When does the negotiation take place? Once per receiver's session?
  910. rom1dep When does the negotiation take place? Once per receiver's session?
  911. rom1dep Maybe it's best to start from this error message (unable to fetch omemo key) but I'm not sure what triggers it
  912. rom1dep Maybe it's best to start from this error message (unable to fetch omemo key) but I'm not sure what triggers it
  913. rom1dep Maybe it's best to start from this error message (unable to fetch omemo key) but I'm not sure what triggers it
  914. Holger Me neither, which is why I suggested starting from the actual traffic :-)
  915. Holger Me neither, which is why I suggested starting from the actual traffic :-)
  916. Holger Me neither, which is why I suggested starting from the actual traffic :-)
  917. Holger But you could grep the Conversations code of course.
  918. Holger But you could grep the Conversations code of course.
  919. Holger But you could grep the Conversations code of course.
  920. rom1dep Humm I just realised this is gajim's MUC, I'll be on conversations' as well
  921. rom1dep Humm I just realised this is gajim's MUC, I'll be on conversations' as well
  922. rom1dep Humm I just realised this is gajim's MUC, I'll be on conversations' as well
  923. Holger But Conversations is good at eating the useful parts of error stanzas.
  924. Holger But Conversations is good at eating the useful parts of error stanzas.
  925. Holger But Conversations is good at eating the useful parts of error stanzas.
  926. Holger (ejabberd puts much love into returning human-readable error messages translated to your locale, and most clients just throw them away!)
  927. Holger (ejabberd puts much love into returning human-readable error messages translated to your locale, and most clients just throw them away!)
  928. Holger (ejabberd puts much love into returning human-readable error messages translated to your locale, and most clients just throw them away!)
  929. rom1dep Why we can't have nice things
  930. rom1dep Why we can't have nice things
  931. rom1dep Why we can't have nice things
  932. debacle UI suggestion: In a chat, I see the avatar image of my chat partner, which is good. However, as someone with many XMPP accounts, it would be nice to see my own avatar, too. Just to know, who *I* am at the moment. Or is this already possible? Maybe via plugin? TIA!
  933. debacle UI suggestion: In a chat, I see the avatar image of my chat partner, which is good. However, as someone with many XMPP accounts, it would be nice to see my own avatar, too. Just to know, who *I* am at the moment. Or is this already possible? Maybe via plugin? TIA!
  934. debacle UI suggestion: In a chat, I see the avatar image of my chat partner, which is good. However, as someone with many XMPP accounts, it would be nice to see my own avatar, too. Just to know, who *I* am at the moment. Or is this already possible? Maybe via plugin? TIA!
  935. dwd debacle, I hate it when I forget who I am.
  936. dwd debacle, I hate it when I forget who I am.
  937. dwd debacle, I hate it when I forget who I am.
  938. Holger Especially useful of you're good-looking, so you don't forget about that either.
  939. Holger Especially useful of you're good-looking, so you don't forget about that either.
  940. Holger Especially useful of you're good-looking, so you don't forget about that either.
  941. zuglufttier debacle, dino does that already 😉
  942. zuglufttier debacle, dino does that already 😉
  943. zuglufttier debacle, dino does that already 😉
  944. lovetox debacle but where should we show this
  945. lovetox debacle but where should we show this
  946. lovetox debacle but where should we show this
  947. debacle dwd, in real life, it's actually nice, because every morning you know someone new, when looking into the mirror :~)
  948. debacle dwd, in real life, it's actually nice, because every morning you know someone new, when looking into the mirror :~)
  949. debacle dwd, in real life, it's actually nice, because every morning you know someone new, when looking into the mirror :~)
  950. zuglufttier https://files.dismail.de/data/2d567c32-cded-4958-b8d3-99178d48b06b/2017-11-10-151426_2062x1204_scrot.png
  951. zuglufttier https://files.dismail.de/data/2d567c32-cded-4958-b8d3-99178d48b06b/2017-11-10-151426_2062x1204_scrot.png
  952. zuglufttier https://files.dismail.de/data/2d567c32-cded-4958-b8d3-99178d48b06b/2017-11-10-151426_2062x1204_scrot.png
  953. zuglufttier This is the way dino does it.
  954. zuglufttier This is the way dino does it.
  955. zuglufttier This is the way dino does it.
  956. debacle zugluftier: yes, dinos way is nice
  957. debacle zugluftier: yes, dinos way is nice
  958. debacle zugluftier: yes, dinos way is nice
  959. debacle debacle: maybe some would like a different solution that eats less screen real estate.
  960. debacle debacle: maybe some would like a different solution that eats less screen real estate.
  961. debacle debacle: maybe some would like a different solution that eats less screen real estate.
  962. dwd I actually like the very terse chat window in Gajim.
  963. dwd I actually like the very terse chat window in Gajim.
  964. dwd I actually like the very terse chat window in Gajim.
  965. debacle in Gajim stable there is in the header: first the Gajim logo, then the name of your contact, and on the right side the contact avatar.
  966. debacle in Gajim stable there is in the header: first the Gajim logo, then the name of your contact, and on the right side the contact avatar.
  967. debacle in Gajim stable there is in the header: first the Gajim logo, then the name of your contact, and on the right side the contact avatar.
  968. debacle I would change that to: avatar of the contact with name (it belongs together anyway!) and on the right side the own avatar
  969. debacle I would change that to: avatar of the contact with name (it belongs together anyway!) and on the right side the own avatar
  970. debacle I would change that to: avatar of the contact with name (it belongs together anyway!) and on the right side the own avatar
  971. debacle and leave out the Gajim logo, sorry!
  972. debacle and leave out the Gajim logo, sorry!
  973. debacle and leave out the Gajim logo, sorry!
  974. lovetox you think this is only the logo?
  975. lovetox you think this is only the logo?
  976. lovetox you think this is only the logo?
  977. lovetox its the status of your contact
  978. lovetox its the status of your contact
  979. lovetox its the status of your contact
  980. lovetox online/offline/away/dnd/x
  981. lovetox online/offline/away/dnd/x
  982. lovetox online/offline/away/dnd/x
  983. dwd lovetox, (And unknown and error)
  984. dwd lovetox, (And unknown and error)
  985. dwd lovetox, (And unknown and error)
  986. lovetox regarding omemo key distribution, i will give the plugin more work in the next days
  987. lovetox regarding omemo key distribution, i will give the plugin more work in the next days
  988. lovetox regarding omemo key distribution, i will give the plugin more work in the next days
  989. lovetox dino shows status only in a tooltip i think
  990. lovetox dino shows status only in a tooltip i think
  991. lovetox dino shows status only in a tooltip i think
  992. lovetox though maybe there is a better way to symoblise status
  993. lovetox though maybe there is a better way to symoblise status
  994. lovetox though maybe there is a better way to symoblise status
  995. zuglufttier For me, the status online is enough... Are there many people who really use away and those?
  996. zuglufttier For me, the status online is enough... Are there many people who really use away and those?
  997. zuglufttier For me, the status online is enough... Are there many people who really use away and those?
  998. lovetox look at the muc roster
  999. lovetox look at the muc roster
  1000. lovetox look at the muc roster
  1001. SaltyBones zuglufttier, it doesn't make a lot of sense these days but when people where mostly using desktops it was kind of nice
  1002. SaltyBones zuglufttier, it doesn't make a lot of sense these days but when people where mostly using desktops it was kind of nice
  1003. SaltyBones zuglufttier, it doesn't make a lot of sense these days but when people where mostly using desktops it was kind of nice
  1004. SaltyBones you coul easily figure out if somebody was reading intermittently or would be back soon or not by their status :)
  1005. SaltyBones you coul easily figure out if somebody was reading intermittently or would be back soon or not by their status :)
  1006. SaltyBones you coul easily figure out if somebody was reading intermittently or would be back soon or not by their status :)
  1007. SaltyBones and as you can see by the xmpp definitions people then started all kinds of nonsense like displaying what music they are listening to :p
  1008. SaltyBones and as you can see by the xmpp definitions people then started all kinds of nonsense like displaying what music they are listening to :p
  1009. SaltyBones and as you can see by the xmpp definitions people then started all kinds of nonsense like displaying what music they are listening to :p
  1010. zuglufttier I know. Nowadays it's mostly automatic status changes by the client.
  1011. zuglufttier I know. Nowadays it's mostly automatic status changes by the client.
  1012. zuglufttier I know. Nowadays it's mostly automatic status changes by the client.
  1013. zuglufttier I used ICQ quite a lot and would have liked the feature back then 😀
  1014. zuglufttier I used ICQ quite a lot and would have liked the feature back then 😀
  1015. zuglufttier I used ICQ quite a lot and would have liked the feature back then 😀
  1016. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1017. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1018. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1019. concerto Another UI thing - can Gajim perhaps add a toggle switch to switch between Available and Offline, while retaining the status dropdown? (dropup? lol)
  1020. concerto Another UI thing - can Gajim perhaps add a toggle switch to switch between Available and Offline, while retaining the status dropdown? (dropup? lol)
  1021. concerto Another UI thing - can Gajim perhaps add a toggle switch to switch between Available and Offline, while retaining the status dropdown? (dropup? lol)
  1022. lovetox what do you want to accomplish?
  1023. lovetox what do you want to accomplish?
  1024. lovetox what do you want to accomplish?
  1025. concerto lovetox: the menu is a pain to use if you happen to be someone who only ever wants to go online or offline, and isn't concerned with statuses.
  1026. concerto lovetox: the menu is a pain to use if you happen to be someone who only ever wants to go online or offline, and isn't concerned with statuses.
  1027. concerto lovetox: the menu is a pain to use if you happen to be someone who only ever wants to go online or offline, and isn't concerned with statuses.
  1028. lovetox but why would you go offline without closing the application
  1029. lovetox but why would you go offline without closing the application
  1030. lovetox but why would you go offline without closing the application
  1031. lovetox thats in my book not a common use
  1032. lovetox thats in my book not a common use
  1033. lovetox thats in my book not a common use
  1034. zuglufttier Not really, disabling the account would work for that as well.
  1035. zuglufttier Not really, disabling the account would work for that as well.
  1036. zuglufttier Not really, disabling the account would work for that as well.
  1037. mdosch > but why would you go offline without closing the application You need to go offline if you want to disable the account in gajim
  1038. mdosch > but why would you go offline without closing the application You need to go offline if you want to disable the account in gajim
  1039. mdosch > but why would you go offline without closing the application You need to go offline if you want to disable the account in gajim
  1040. mdosch lovetox:
  1041. mdosch lovetox:
  1042. mdosch lovetox:
  1043. lovetox but thats not a common use
  1044. lovetox but thats not a common use
  1045. lovetox but thats not a common use
  1046. lovetox you dont disable/enable 20 times each day, then i would say a new button makes that task easier
  1047. lovetox you dont disable/enable 20 times each day, then i would say a new button makes that task easier
  1048. lovetox you dont disable/enable 20 times each day, then i would say a new button makes that task easier
  1049. mdosch Recently I was often annoyed by this when I did some testing with accounts on other servers. But I admit this is not very common
  1050. mdosch Recently I was often annoyed by this when I did some testing with accounts on other servers. But I admit this is not very common
  1051. mdosch Recently I was often annoyed by this when I did some testing with accounts on other servers. But I admit this is not very common
  1052. mdosch That's why I didn't report it
  1053. mdosch That's why I didn't report it
  1054. mdosch That's why I didn't report it
  1055. lovetox yeah im also annoyed by it sometimes, but didnt have time to change it
  1056. lovetox yeah im also annoyed by it sometimes, but didnt have time to change it
  1057. lovetox yeah im also annoyed by it sometimes, but didnt have time to change it
  1058. mdosch Also I like going offline before restarting prosody
  1059. mdosch Also I like going offline before restarting prosody
  1060. mdosch Also I like going offline before restarting prosody
  1061. concerto lovetox: reconnecting when there has been a loss of connection. Sometimes Gajim doesn't reconnect, I think.
  1062. concerto lovetox: reconnecting when there has been a loss of connection. Sometimes Gajim doesn't reconnect, I think.
  1063. concerto lovetox: reconnecting when there has been a loss of connection. Sometimes Gajim doesn't reconnect, I think.
  1064. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1065. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1066. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1067. Muelli hey hey. Can anybody tell me what git revision the old mercurial revision fdd7c9b81c1b translated to?
  1068. Muelli hey hey. Can anybody tell me what git revision the old mercurial revision fdd7c9b81c1b translated to?
  1069. Muelli hey hey. Can anybody tell me what git revision the old mercurial revision fdd7c9b81c1b translated to?
  1070. mdosch >[16:32:40] ‎concerto‎: lovetox: reconnecting when there has been a loss of connection. Sometimes Gajim doesn't reconnect, I think. Yep, it often doesn't connect when I open my laptop after hibernation. And it's true, the available button is far away as there a some in between I never use.
  1071. mdosch >[16:32:40] ‎concerto‎: lovetox: reconnecting when there has been a loss of connection. Sometimes Gajim doesn't reconnect, I think. Yep, it often doesn't connect when I open my laptop after hibernation. And it's true, the available button is far away as there a some in between I never use.
  1072. mdosch >[16:32:40] ‎concerto‎: lovetox: reconnecting when there has been a loss of connection. Sometimes Gajim doesn't reconnect, I think. Yep, it often doesn't connect when I open my laptop after hibernation. And it's true, the available button is far away as there a some in between I never use.
  1073. lovetox on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed?
  1074. lovetox on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed?
  1075. lovetox on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed?
  1076. lovetox we should debug this if it doesnt work
  1077. lovetox we should debug this if it doesnt work
  1078. lovetox we should debug this if it doesnt work
  1079. Muelli I experience this very often.
  1080. Muelli I experience this very often.
  1081. Muelli I experience this very often.
  1082. lovetox Muelli, wait for Asterix he maybe can help you
  1083. lovetox Muelli, wait for Asterix he maybe can help you
  1084. lovetox Muelli, wait for Asterix he maybe can help you
  1085. mdosch >‎[17:30:33] ‎lovetox‎: on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed? yes, network-manager/stable,now 1.6.2-3 on debian stable, but afair it also happens on my testing machine. Nut sure if it happens everytime but I know I often have to manually trigger reconnection
  1086. mdosch >‎[17:30:33] ‎lovetox‎: on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed? yes, network-manager/stable,now 1.6.2-3 on debian stable, but afair it also happens on my testing machine. Nut sure if it happens everytime but I know I often have to manually trigger reconnection
  1087. mdosch >‎[17:30:33] ‎lovetox‎: on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed? yes, network-manager/stable,now 1.6.2-3 on debian stable, but afair it also happens on my testing machine. Nut sure if it happens everytime but I know I often have to manually trigger reconnection
  1088. mdosch But gajim runs firejailed, I don't know if this might be related
  1089. mdosch But gajim runs firejailed, I don't know if this might be related
  1090. mdosch But gajim runs firejailed, I don't know if this might be related
  1091. lovetox dont know what that means, but if it can receive dbus events it should work
  1092. lovetox dont know what that means, but if it can receive dbus events it should work
  1093. lovetox dont know what that means, but if it can receive dbus events it should work
  1094. lovetox you could start logging with -l gajim.network_watcher=DEBUG
  1095. lovetox you could start logging with -l gajim.network_watcher=DEBUG
  1096. lovetox you could start logging with -l gajim.network_watcher=DEBUG
  1097. mdosch Firejail is some sandbox for linux
  1098. mdosch Firejail is some sandbox for linux
  1099. mdosch Firejail is some sandbox for linux
  1100. lovetox and once you come out of hibernate look at the log, and see if the dbus event was received
  1101. lovetox and once you come out of hibernate look at the log, and see if the dbus event was received
  1102. lovetox and once you come out of hibernate look at the log, and see if the dbus event was received
  1103. mdosch https://firejail.wordpress.com/
  1104. mdosch https://firejail.wordpress.com/
  1105. mdosch https://firejail.wordpress.com/
  1106. mdosch Is it logging by default or do you mean terminal output?
  1107. mdosch Is it logging by default or do you mean terminal output?
  1108. mdosch Is it logging by default or do you mean terminal output?
  1109. Muelli mdosch: do you have a link-local account configured?
  1110. Muelli mdosch: do you have a link-local account configured?
  1111. Muelli mdosch: do you have a link-local account configured?
  1112. Muelli The problem started for me once I had the link-local account set up/
  1113. Muelli The problem started for me once I had the link-local account set up/
  1114. Muelli The problem started for me once I had the link-local account set up/
  1115. lovetox no start gajim with that in terminalk to get logging output
  1116. lovetox no start gajim with that in terminalk to get logging output
  1117. lovetox no start gajim with that in terminalk to get logging output
  1118. mdosch Muelli, I don't know what that means
  1119. mdosch Muelli, I don't know what that means
  1120. mdosch Muelli, I don't know what that means
  1121. lovetox or start gajim with full logging "-v"
  1122. lovetox or start gajim with full logging "-v"
  1123. lovetox or start gajim with full logging "-v"
  1124. lovetox go into hibernate for some seconds
  1125. lovetox go into hibernate for some seconds
  1126. lovetox go into hibernate for some seconds
  1127. lovetox and come out of it
  1128. lovetox and come out of it
  1129. lovetox and come out of it
  1130. Muelli mdosch: Ctrl+Shift+A to pull up the account editor. Then check if the "Active" checkbox for the Local account is ticked.
  1131. Muelli mdosch: Ctrl+Shift+A to pull up the account editor. Then check if the "Active" checkbox for the Local account is ticked.
  1132. Muelli mdosch: Ctrl+Shift+A to pull up the account editor. Then check if the "Active" checkbox for the Local account is ticked.
  1133. mdosch Ok, will try later maybe. First I have to cook dinner (late lunch actually)
  1134. mdosch Ok, will try later maybe. First I have to cook dinner (late lunch actually)
  1135. mdosch Ok, will try later maybe. First I have to cook dinner (late lunch actually)
  1136. mdosch No, I don't have this activated. What is this for? To connect to an xmpp server on the same machine?
  1137. mdosch No, I don't have this activated. What is this for? To connect to an xmpp server on the same machine?
  1138. mdosch No, I don't have this activated. What is this for? To connect to an xmpp server on the same machine?
  1139. dwd mdosch, Serverless messaging on the local LAN.
  1140. dwd mdosch, Serverless messaging on the local LAN.
  1141. dwd mdosch, Serverless messaging on the local LAN.
  1142. mdosch like this bonjour stuff if I am not mistaken?
  1143. mdosch like this bonjour stuff if I am not mistaken?
  1144. mdosch like this bonjour stuff if I am not mistaken?
  1145. mdosch Never used that
  1146. mdosch Never used that
  1147. mdosch Never used that
  1148. dwd mdosch, Pretty much. XEP-0174 if you're interested.
  1149. dwd mdosch, Pretty much. XEP-0174 if you're interested.
  1150. dwd mdosch, Pretty much. XEP-0174 if you're interested.
  1151. mdosch not so much ^^
  1152. mdosch not so much ^^
  1153. mdosch not so much ^^
  1154. mdosch My network is in my flat and when there are people around I talk to them in person. I guess this is more for university or company networks...
  1155. mdosch My network is in my flat and when there are people around I talk to them in person. I guess this is more for university or company networks...
  1156. mdosch My network is in my flat and when there are people around I talk to them in person. I guess this is more for university or company networks...
  1157. concerto lovetox: > on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed? Yes and yes.
  1158. concerto lovetox: > on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed? Yes and yes.
  1159. concerto lovetox: > on linux? do you have NetworkManager installed? Yes and yes.
  1160. lovetox so get debug output please
  1161. lovetox so get debug output please
  1162. lovetox so get debug output please
  1163. debacle SaltyBones, I would love to interchange what music I'm listening with my "significant other" automatically. No nonsense :~) But I don't use the feature, because it is only possible with everybody in my roster at the moment.
  1164. debacle SaltyBones, I would love to interchange what music I'm listening with my "significant other" automatically. No nonsense :~) But I don't use the feature, because it is only possible with everybody in my roster at the moment.
  1165. debacle SaltyBones, I would love to interchange what music I'm listening with my "significant other" automatically. No nonsense :~) But I don't use the feature, because it is only possible with everybody in my roster at the moment.
  1166. SaltyBones debacle, how is this useful?
  1167. SaltyBones debacle, how is this useful?
  1168. SaltyBones debacle, how is this useful?
  1169. mdosch Not everything that is nice-to-have is useful. 😀
  1170. mdosch Not everything that is nice-to-have is useful. 😀
  1171. mdosch Not everything that is nice-to-have is useful. 😀
  1172. debacle SaltyBones, well, you know, between some people there exist "romantic relationship", even if they are not present in the moment. Romanticism is related to arts, especially poems and - music! Some couples have something they call "our song" etc. "Play it again, Sam!" Myself and my partner have a somewhat overlapping taste of music and I like to see, what they is listening to and vice versa. But, hey, we are engineers! F*ck romanticism! :~)
  1173. debacle SaltyBones, well, you know, between some people there exist "romantic relationship", even if they are not present in the moment. Romanticism is related to arts, especially poems and - music! Some couples have something they call "our song" etc. "Play it again, Sam!" Myself and my partner have a somewhat overlapping taste of music and I like to see, what they is listening to and vice versa. But, hey, we are engineers! F*ck romanticism! :~)
  1174. debacle SaltyBones, well, you know, between some people there exist "romantic relationship", even if they are not present in the moment. Romanticism is related to arts, especially poems and - music! Some couples have something they call "our song" etc. "Play it again, Sam!" Myself and my partner have a somewhat overlapping taste of music and I like to see, what they is listening to and vice versa. But, hey, we are engineers! F*ck romanticism! :~)
  1175. SaltyBones :)
  1176. SaltyBones :)
  1177. SaltyBones :)
  1178. ThibG debacle: oh, unrelated, but heads up if you haven't seen: current master needs more recent nbxmpp than what is in Debian
  1179. ThibG debacle: oh, unrelated, but heads up if you haven't seen: current master needs more recent nbxmpp than what is in Debian
  1180. ThibG debacle: oh, unrelated, but heads up if you haven't seen: current master needs more recent nbxmpp than what is in Debian
  1181. lovetox hi noticed that yesterday :)
  1182. lovetox hi noticed that yesterday :)
  1183. lovetox hi noticed that yesterday :)
  1184. lovetox he noticed that yesterday :)
  1185. lovetox he noticed that yesterday :)
  1186. lovetox he noticed that yesterday :)
  1187. ThibG OK!
  1188. ThibG OK!
  1189. ThibG OK!
  1190. debacle lovetox knew immediately what it was, when I sent the backtrace :~)
  1191. debacle lovetox knew immediately what it was, when I sent the backtrace :~)
  1192. debacle lovetox knew immediately what it was, when I sent the backtrace :~)
  1193. concerto lovetox: was the OMEMO MUC PM bug fixed? I'm still getting "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." when someone sends me one o.o
  1194. concerto lovetox: was the OMEMO MUC PM bug fixed? I'm still getting "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." when someone sends me one o.o
  1195. concerto lovetox: was the OMEMO MUC PM bug fixed? I'm still getting "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." when someone sends me one o.o
  1196. lovetox so maybe he doesnt trust your fingerprint?
  1197. lovetox so maybe he doesnt trust your fingerprint?
  1198. lovetox so maybe he doesnt trust your fingerprint?
  1199. lovetox im refactoring the omemo plugin right now to fix some bugs, then i will add muc mam to gajim, and then muc mam to omemo, and then all these problems should be gone, because i will remove normal history support afterwards, only mam then
  1200. lovetox im refactoring the omemo plugin right now to fix some bugs, then i will add muc mam to gajim, and then muc mam to omemo, and then all these problems should be gone, because i will remove normal history support afterwards, only mam then
  1201. lovetox im refactoring the omemo plugin right now to fix some bugs, then i will add muc mam to gajim, and then muc mam to omemo, and then all these problems should be gone, because i will remove normal history support afterwards, only mam then
  1202. concerto lovetox: they do
  1203. concerto lovetox: they do
  1204. concerto lovetox: they do
  1205. lovetox then run debug output
  1206. lovetox then run debug output
  1207. lovetox then run debug output
  1208. lovetox -l gajim.plugin_system.omemo=DEBUG
  1209. lovetox -l gajim.plugin_system.omemo=DEBUG
  1210. lovetox -l gajim.plugin_system.omemo=DEBUG
  1211. lovetox and send it to me
  1212. lovetox and send it to me
  1213. lovetox and send it to me
  1214. concerto "message was forwarded doing magic" lolwhat xD
  1215. concerto "message was forwarded doing magic" lolwhat xD
  1216. concerto "message was forwarded doing magic" lolwhat xD
  1217. lovetox haha i have to delete this ^^
  1218. lovetox haha i have to delete this ^^
  1219. lovetox haha i have to delete this ^^
  1220. vanitasvitae lovetox: no, leave it in! :D
  1221. vanitasvitae lovetox: no, leave it in! :D
  1222. vanitasvitae lovetox: no, leave it in! :D
  1223. vanitasvitae I love stumbling over stuff like that in source code.
  1224. vanitasvitae I love stumbling over stuff like that in source code.
  1225. vanitasvitae I love stumbling over stuff like that in source code.
  1226. concerto lovetox: hope this helps - http://dpaste.com//1KH4JC5 The sender was bob@jabjab.de They sent "be on time" in one-on-one OMEMO chat, then as a whisper in myomemomuc@chat.jabberfr.org
  1227. concerto lovetox: hope this helps - http://dpaste.com//1KH4JC5 The sender was bob@jabjab.de They sent "be on time" in one-on-one OMEMO chat, then as a whisper in myomemomuc@chat.jabberfr.org
  1228. concerto lovetox: hope this helps - http://dpaste.com//1KH4JC5 The sender was bob@jabjab.de They sent "be on time" in one-on-one OMEMO chat, then as a whisper in myomemomuc@chat.jabberfr.org
  1229. lovetox concerto this is way too much
  1230. lovetox concerto this is way too much
  1231. lovetox concerto this is way too much
  1232. lovetox -l gajim.plugin_system.omemo=DEBUG
  1233. lovetox -l gajim.plugin_system.omemo=DEBUG
  1234. lovetox -l gajim.plugin_system.omemo=DEBUG
  1235. concerto o.o'
  1236. concerto o.o'
  1237. concerto o.o'
  1238. lovetox log with that
  1239. lovetox log with that
  1240. lovetox log with that
  1241. concerto lovetox: couldn't I just filter the relevant lines with grep/sed?
  1242. concerto lovetox: couldn't I just filter the relevant lines with grep/sed?
  1243. concerto lovetox: couldn't I just filter the relevant lines with grep/sed?
  1244. lovetox then filter every line with gajim.plugin_system.omemo
  1245. lovetox then filter every line with gajim.plugin_system.omemo
  1246. lovetox then filter every line with gajim.plugin_system.omemo
  1247. concerto http://dpaste.com//3N13415
  1248. concerto http://dpaste.com//3N13415
  1249. concerto http://dpaste.com//3N13415
  1250. lovetox are you telling me you miss messages? or that this message is printed even if you received the message
  1251. lovetox are you telling me you miss messages? or that this message is printed even if you received the message
  1252. lovetox are you telling me you miss messages? or that this message is printed even if you received the message
  1253. mdosch Is there any difference in using gajim on windows compared to linux? Meaning: am I able to create a howto on linux that windows users can follow?
  1254. mdosch Is there any difference in using gajim on windows compared to linux? Meaning: am I able to create a howto on linux that windows users can follow?
  1255. mdosch Is there any difference in using gajim on windows compared to linux? Meaning: am I able to create a howto on linux that windows users can follow?
  1256. concerto lovetox: one message was sent, but I got notified that there were two. And I received "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." twice.
  1257. concerto lovetox: one message was sent, but I got notified that there were two. And I received "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." twice.
  1258. concerto lovetox: one message was sent, but I got notified that there were two. And I received "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." twice.
  1259. concerto lovetox: only one message was sent to me, but I got notified that there were two. And instead of getting the message, I received "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." twice.
  1260. concerto lovetox: only one message was sent to me, but I got notified that there were two. And instead of getting the message, I received "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." twice.
  1261. concerto lovetox: only one message was sent to me, but I got notified that there were two. And instead of getting the message, I received "This message was encrypted with OMEMO and could not be decrypted." twice.
  1262. lovetox are you talking about private messages or directly inside the groupchat?
  1263. lovetox are you talking about private messages or directly inside the groupchat?
  1264. lovetox are you talking about private messages or directly inside the groupchat?
  1265. concerto lovetox: the latter, MUC PMs.
  1266. concerto lovetox: the latter, MUC PMs.
  1267. concerto lovetox: the latter, MUC PMs.
  1268. lovetox yeah i never checked if this works correctly
  1269. lovetox yeah i never checked if this works correctly
  1270. lovetox yeah i never checked if this works correctly
  1271. zuglufttier mdosch: There are no big differences between the versions. Maybe things like tray support will be different. They use exactly the same plugins etc.
  1272. zuglufttier mdosch: There are no big differences between the versions. Maybe things like tray support will be different. They use exactly the same plugins etc.
  1273. zuglufttier mdosch: There are no big differences between the versions. Maybe things like tray support will be different. They use exactly the same plugins etc.
  1274. zuglufttier So if you're talking about omemo eg, there's no need to differenciate.
  1275. zuglufttier So if you're talking about omemo eg, there's no need to differenciate.
  1276. zuglufttier So if you're talking about omemo eg, there's no need to differenciate.
  1277. mdosch zuglufttier thx
  1278. mdosch zuglufttier thx
  1279. mdosch zuglufttier thx
  1280. concerto zuglufttier: what does your name mean? train air animal? o.o
  1281. concerto zuglufttier: what does your name mean? train air animal? o.o
  1282. concerto zuglufttier: what does your name mean? train air animal? o.o
  1283. dwd debacle: minor point, but you can change the access model of the pep node if you want. Might work to restrict your user tune, depending on server.
  1284. dwd debacle: minor point, but you can change the access model of the pep node if you want. Might work to restrict your user tune, depending on server.
  1285. dwd debacle: minor point, but you can change the access model of the pep node if you want. Might work to restrict your user tune, depending on server.
  1286. zuglufttier concerto: It's a real thing in German. I think it could be translated with draft stopper in English.
  1287. zuglufttier concerto: It's a real thing in German. I think it could be translated with draft stopper in English.
  1288. zuglufttier concerto: It's a real thing in German. I think it could be translated with draft stopper in English.
  1289. zuglufttier Elongated plush
  1290. zuglufttier Elongated plush
  1291. zuglufttier Elongated plush
  1292. zuglufttier Toys in the form of an animal.
  1293. zuglufttier Toys in the form of an animal.
  1294. zuglufttier Toys in the form of an animal.
  1295. Holger Never heard "Zuglufttier" but Google agrees with you :-)
  1296. Holger Never heard "Zuglufttier" but Google agrees with you :-)
  1297. Holger Never heard "Zuglufttier" but Google agrees with you :-)
  1298. mdosch Isn't it usually a Zugluftdackel?
  1299. mdosch Isn't it usually a Zugluftdackel?
  1300. mdosch Isn't it usually a Zugluftdackel?
  1301. zuglufttier I think that's the old version but they come in many shapes. Not so common anymore, now that are houses are insulated that good :D
  1302. zuglufttier I think that's the old version but they come in many shapes. Not so common anymore, now that are houses are insulated that good :D
  1303. zuglufttier I think that's the old version but they come in many shapes. Not so common anymore, now that are houses are insulated that good :D
  1304. zuglufttier I learned about them pretty late in my life and liked the name. Also, the username is often still available.
  1305. zuglufttier I learned about them pretty late in my life and liked the name. Also, the username is often still available.
  1306. zuglufttier I learned about them pretty late in my life and liked the name. Also, the username is often still available.
  1307. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1308. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1309. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1310. Tschaeggaer >zuglufttier‎ i'm german too but i've never heard that word before. my username is _always_ available because it's very stupid and far away from the word it should resemble. :)
  1311. Tschaeggaer >zuglufttier‎ i'm german too but i've never heard that word before. my username is _always_ available because it's very stupid and far away from the word it should resemble. :)
  1312. Tschaeggaer >zuglufttier‎ i'm german too but i've never heard that word before. my username is _always_ available because it's very stupid and far away from the word it should resemble. :)
  1313. mdosch Jagger?
  1314. mdosch Jagger?
  1315. mdosch Jagger?
  1316. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1317. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1318. svesa set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.8 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/issues New bugs about a plugin at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim-plugins/issues Paste in https://paste.gajim.org shots in http://picpaste.com room logs in https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/ Spread Gajim! https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/wikis/community/SpreadJabberAndGajim GSOC: xmpp:gsoc@conference.conversations.im?join
  1319. mdosch Checker?
  1320. mdosch Checker?
  1321. mdosch Checker?
  1322. Tschaeggaer Checker
  1323. Tschaeggaer Checker
  1324. Tschaeggaer Checker
  1325. concerto zuglufttier: translated * to (No matter what the language...verb-noun combinations remain a pain in the ass xD)
  1326. concerto zuglufttier: translated * to (No matter what the language...verb-noun combinations remain a pain in the ass xD)
  1327. concerto zuglufttier: translated * to (No matter what the language...verb-noun combinations remain a pain in the ass xD)
  1328. zuglufttier It's two nouns: Zugluft and Tier.
  1329. zuglufttier It's two nouns: Zugluft and Tier.
  1330. zuglufttier It's two nouns: Zugluft and Tier.
  1331. Tschaeggaer thats just a noun made out of two nouns. :D
  1332. Tschaeggaer thats just a noun made out of two nouns. :D
  1333. Tschaeggaer thats just a noun made out of two nouns. :D
  1334. Tschaeggaer https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Zuglufttier.jpg
  1335. Tschaeggaer https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Zuglufttier.jpg
  1336. Tschaeggaer https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Zuglufttier.jpg
  1337. concerto (I was referring to zuglufttier saying "translated with" instead of "translated to"...)
  1338. concerto (I was referring to zuglufttier saying "translated with" instead of "translated to"...)
  1339. concerto (I was referring to zuglufttier saying "translated with" instead of "translated to"...)
  1340. debacle dwd, how can I change the PEP access model? Sounds cool!
  1341. debacle dwd, how can I change the PEP access model? Sounds cool!
  1342. debacle dwd, how can I change the PEP access model? Sounds cool!
  1343. lovetox with gajim right click on account row then personal events
  1344. lovetox with gajim right click on account row then personal events
  1345. lovetox with gajim right click on account row then personal events
  1346. lovetox then you see nodes, you could for example edit the activity node to whitelist model
  1347. lovetox then you see nodes, you could for example edit the activity node to whitelist model
  1348. lovetox then you see nodes, you could for example edit the activity node to whitelist model
  1349. lovetox but then you have to add a jid to the whitelist, which you would have to do with the xml console
  1350. lovetox but then you have to add a jid to the whitelist, which you would have to do with the xml console
  1351. lovetox but then you have to add a jid to the whitelist, which you would have to do with the xml console
  1352. lovetox afterwards only that person should see the contents of that node
  1353. lovetox afterwards only that person should see the contents of that node
  1354. lovetox afterwards only that person should see the contents of that node