Gajim - 2017-06-27


  1. lovetox pep found the issue
  2. lovetox just dont deactivate/reactivate the omemo plugin
  3. pep. :D
  4. lovetox i think i push a fix tomorrow
  5. pep. thanks
  6. SaltyBones what do I need so the git version will run?
  7. SaltyBones Since the jingleft support was added it is lacking something for that
  8. Dekádě хуя толпа
  9. Dekádě что вы такой неебической толпой тут делаете?
  10. Jordi Mallach lovetox, hi there
  11. lovetox hi
  12. lovetox SaltyBones, i would just install gajim-default-nightly from the gajim repo
  13. lovetox what you need is nbxmpp-nightly
  14. Jordi Mallach lovetox, I think you have been getting some reports of issues from pep. lately
  15. Jordi Mallach It was mostly him proxying my problems with the nightly packages :)
  16. Jordi Mallach I just switched to gajim after years of Empathy and Gossip before that, basically because it's abandonware at this point and it's lacking more and more feature support
  17. lovetox ah yeah tanks for reporting
  18. lovetox one of your issues i will fix today, the one that resends messages when you activate/deactivate the plugin
  19. Jordi Mallach coming from there, I find some bits of the UI difficult to understand, and I wonder if you'd be willing to discuss some of it
  20. Jordi Mallach ah great
  21. lovetox yeah of course just speak your mind
  22. Jordi Mallach the one that seems more urgent is the traceback when trying to open the prefs
  23. Jordi Mallach basically I was very used to the compact UI in Empathy, so it's a detail here and a detail there
  24. Jordi Mallach for example, right now I have a tab with "gajim", then a way to big vertical block that says gajim@conference and the chatroom topic
  25. Jordi Mallach quite a bit of vertical space there
  26. Jordi Mallach There's also the "Send" button at the bottom
  27. Jordi Mallach I wonder how many people actually has pressed that one once :P
  28. lovetox yeah on desktop its very unlikely
  29. lovetox but whats wrong with it?
  30. lovetox the tracback you talking about is the one with the GST package?
  31. Jordi Mallach oh, is gajim designed to be usable on touch devices?
  32. Jordi Mallach yes, that oe
  33. Jordi Mallach yes, that one
  34. lovetox no not at all
  35. lovetox whats about the button that you dont like?
  36. Jordi Mallach well, if nobody is using it, there's no need for it to be there
  37. lovetox probably not, but you dont really gain something from leaving it away
  38. Link Mauve lovetox, less clutter goes a long way to make a software appear more usable.
  39. lovetox yeah i agree its useless ..
  40. Link Mauve People don’t want tons of buttons and checkboxes everywhere, they want to chat.
  41. lovetox i never thought about it,
  42. Jordi Mallach I have plenty of ideas on that direction, just after a couple days of using it
  43. Jordi Mallach :P
  44. pep. Or if you want a button maybe make it in a place that's less likely to clutter. I can imagine my parents asking me "And now how do I send?"
  45. Jordi Mallach if you want a UI for send, just add it to the end of the input field
  46. Jordi Mallach a la whatsapp et all
  47. lovetox no i like the idea to get rid of it
  48. Jordi Mallach \o/
  49. lovetox then maybe we could make the memberlist bigger to the bottom
  50. lovetox and on top we could shorten the topic bar so it doesnt go over the memberlist
  51. Jordi Mallach I could think of ways to get rid of the icons at the bottom, or at least make them not use so much space
  52. lovetox so the memberlist would fill the whole vertical space
  53. pep. I'm going to bail out of this discussion, I'm definitely not the right guy to give opinions on this :-°
  54. Jordi Mallach pep., heh, go back to your black terminal
  55. Link Mauve Black terminals have the best UI, they have no useless buttons!
  56. pep. \o/
  57. lovetox we could of course make the toolbar a bit smaller
  58. lovetox but we need the buttons .. i have no idea how to make that in another way
  59. lovetox hm or do we ..
  60. lovetox emotiocons button could go left besides the input box
  61. lovetox the nickname change and room subject could go into a some menu on the top of the window, because they are not used often
  62. Jordi Mallach lovetox, the smiley one could go in the input field. the formatting one doesn't do anything here (what a good reason of getting rid of it! :) the topic one could be replaced by double clicking the topic in the header, right clicking it, etc., change nickname I would just stick in your own's context menu in the nick list, the bookmark one I would put on the topic space, browse history I'd just move them to the menus, same for advanced
  63. Jordi Mallach and encryption, unsure but something could be done too :)
  64. Jordi Mallach yeah, the idae is that there's many icons that are seldomly used
  65. Jordi Mallach the vast majority of users never ever change a chatroom topic
  66. pep. encryption could also go in the input bar
  67. Jordi Mallach possibly
  68. pep. If there's still place
  69. pep. If there's still room
  70. Jordi Mallach the input bar is getting crowded though :p
  71. pep. What is there in it atm?
  72. pep. nothing?
  73. Jordi Mallach lovetox, on the nitpicking department, I would reduce the width of the left/right margin between the edge of the window and the chat area, and ditto for the separation between the chat area and the nick list
  74. Jordi Mallach there's even an extra line in that one that I had never seen before
  75. Jordi Mallach pep., nothing, just an input box
  76. lovetox thats a handle
  77. lovetox you can touch it and make the member list bigger
  78. Jordi Mallach sure, but it's way too many pixels
  79. lovetox can you send me a screenshot how a chatwindow looks for you
  80. Jordi Mallach oh great cannot send files because my server sucks big time
  81. Jordi Mallach https://oskuro.net/gajim.png
  82. Jordi Mallach also why on earth is my visible name my full name if my profile says "alias: jordi"?
  83. Jordi Mallach lovetox, ↑
  84. lovetox click join groupchat
  85. lovetox what does it say in the nickanme box?
  86. Jordi Mallach "Jordi"
  87. SouL Jordi? Are you from the Mediterranean?
  88. Jordi Mallach I was born in mainland, but very near the sea, yes ;)
  89. lovetox hm actually i dont know how it generates the nickname, i suspect it takes something you have chosen in another muc, the profile does not seem to influence the groupchat nick
  90. SouL It is a common name in Catalan speaking zones so..
  91. pep. SouL, you touched a sensible spot
  92. Jordi Mallach SouL, I'm from the Valencian Country ;)
  93. Jordi Mallach for full disclosure, Valencian = Catalan :P
  94. SouL Jordi Mallach: xe, jo també :)
  95. SouL pep.: not at all :P
  96. jordi SouL, your nick rings a bell, maybe from #debian-catalan?
  97. SouL jordi: i used to idle there, yes haha
  98. jordi I see :)
  99. lovetox Jordi, i found out, its because the "join groupchat window" presents you with the last groupchat you joined, probably you are named in some groupchat with the full name
  100. jordi lovetox: hm, I just barely started using gajim!
  101. lovetox im pretty sure it takes the profile nick if you really never joined a groupchat at all and first start to use it
  102. Link Mauve lovetox, btw, did I tell you about the idea to merge Join Groupchat and Start Chat?
  103. pep. lovetox, that was after I sent him a link: xmpp:gajim@conference.gajim.org?join
  104. jordi start chat? :P
  105. Link Mauve Basically to use the same UI as the “Invite contacts to the conversation” in a single chat, to either start a chat with one person from your roster or with multiple ones.
  106. Link Mauve jordi, when you click on Accounts > your account > Start Chat.
  107. Link Mauve Currently it’s asking you to type a JID.
  108. Link Mauve Which isn’t exactly the most user-friendly UI ever.
  109. jordi oh yes that makes sense
  110. jordi start and join should probably be the same thing
  111. jordi if it exists, you join, else you create it? just like IRC
  112. jordi oh you mean something else
  113. Link Mauve I mean something totally different, yeah. :p
  114. Link Mauve Many people seem to want the option to create private MUCs with a bunch of contacts, instead of having to choose a name, a server, a topic, etc.
  115. jordi Link Mauve, right
  116. jordi the whole Accounts menu can be given some thought
  117. jordi the first thing you do there is select an account
  118. jordi so in my case Account → sindominio.net → Join group chat
  119. jordi And in the join group chat dialog, what is the first thing in the UI? Yeah! The desired account
  120. Link Mauve :D
  121. jordi it seems to me the first layer could be discarded entirely
  122. lovetox thats actually a bug when i redesigned the menus, that account box should be hidden
  123. jordi lovetox, don't you think an approach removing that unfolding menu would be better?
  124. lovetox but there are the bookmarks in there
  125. lovetox where should they go
  126. Link Mauve lovetox, https://linkmauve.fr/files/gajim-muc.png when I received a MUC invitation.
  127. Link Mauve (And accepted it.)
  128. lovetox thats a slow ass server ^^
  129. Link Mauve Sorry, that’s my parents’ ADSL. :(
  130. lovetox ok but you are not in the memberslist
  131. lovetox thats a muc answer what should i do about it
  132. Link Mauve That’s another Gajim sending the invitation.
  133. lovetox you mean gajim should automatically add to the members list
  134. lovetox and when not admin, not allow invites at all
  135. Link Mauve Yes it should.
  136. jordi lovetox, saw my screenshot?
  137. jordi now see https://oskuro.net/empathy.png
  138. jordi empathy gets the topic thing *so wrong*
  139. jordi lol
  140. jordi but the rest, it's clean as it can be
  141. jordi in particular, see the handle we were discussing
  142. lovetox yeah of course i make that even smaller :)
  143. jordi yeah, ++ for gajim
  144. lovetox ok i have now enough input for like 4 months :D
  145. lovetox so whos up helping to make all the things happen :D
  146. jordi on the topic bar thing, the main thing I was saying is that "gajim@conf.g.o" in the the biggest font ever is probably unwanted info
  147. jordi lovetox, oh, count on Link Mauve for that
  148. jordi runs
  149. lovetox :D
  150. Link Mauve :-°
  151. jordi some of these are small tweaks
  152. lovetox i will reorder and remove some things in the chatwindow, and send you a screenshot
  153. jordi shove a few pixels here and there
  154. Link Mauve jordi, can you ask for me to be put on IM r&d? :p
  155. jordi Link Mauve, haha
  156. Holger Link Mauve: Shouldn't such rooms be members-only and then the server should add invited JIDs to the members list?
  157. Link Mauve Holger, yes, exactly.
  158. jordi lovetox, sounds like a plan
  159. Holger Link Mauve: Above you said that Gajim should do it :-)
  160. Link Mauve So it’s either Gajim failing at signaling that to the server (more likely), or the super old Prosody this server is running failing at setting the member list.
  161. Link Mauve I don’t have any logs so I can’t tell.
  162. lovetox gajim has to signal it?
  163. Holger Oh dear 0045: "If the room is members-only, the service MAY also add the invitee to the member list." :-/
  164. Holger Our standards are sooo awesome. "The sane thing might or might not happen, so to make things reliable please assume insane behavior!"
  165. SaltyBones Sound like xmpp indeed
  166. Holger (I wrongly rememberd a MUST or at least SHOULD there.)
  167. Link Mauve When do we scrape MUC again?
  168. jordi Link Mauve, replaced by what?
  169. jordi puts on his XMPP newbie hat
  170. Link Mauve jordi, MIX, XEP-0369.
  171. Link Mauve Which is very WIP still.
  172. Link Mauve With only very few implementations, and no client.
  173. jordi Link Mauve, haha, I see it's always the same :D
  174. Link Mauve jordi, in the meantime, MUC can still somewhat be used.
  175. jordi lovetox, anyway, nice to chat to you
  176. jordi I'll keep bugging you for the next 4 months ;)
  177. lovetox i count on it :)
  178. bot Philipp Hörist pushed 1 commit to branch _refs/heads/master_ of _gajim_ <https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim>: *55889d04* <https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/commit/55889d045fb0fffebb8f9d4e2b60380be6f8a36a> Add new extension point method
  179. lovetox jordi, can you post me the GST tracback again
  180. lovetox can you open the preferences?
  181. mimi89999 Are voice calls in Gajim default nightly encrypted?
  182. lovetox no
  183. jordi lovetox, you mean using master?
  184. jordi https://paste.debian.net/973617/
  185. lovetox_ thanks
  186. lovetox https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/dUTZ9qBcVNRBnVFX/Unbenannt.PNG
  187. lovetox jordi
  188. lovetox but what to do about the topic, i agree it has a pretty prominent place and is always seen, but nobody needs to constantly read the topic
  189. jordi oh you have the roster on the same window as the chat window
  190. jordi I haven't gotten there, due to the crash :)
  191. jordi I haven't been able to see the preferences yet
  192. pep. I disagree, in most client the topic is at least partly visible, maybe you could reduce the amount displayed. But you might need this bar to add a bookmark button there etc. ~
  193. jordi lovetox, at least make the conference room a lot smaller
  194. pep. like jordi was saying earlier
  195. jordi no need for such a big font
  196. lovetox i just thought of a small bar that presents only one or two lines of the topic, but with an expander button on the side
  197. lovetox if you click the expander button it expands down and reveals all
  198. pep. or tooltip. Is there also a /topic command?
  199. jordi lovetox: the expander could be as minimal as your "..." being clickable, and that expanding it
  200. lovetox yes
  201. lovetox just type /topic
  202. pep. I don,t use gajim
  203. lovetox ah ok :)
  204. lovetox but yeah there is
  205. jordi I agree the topic is probably important to see
  206. jordi but they tend to be long in these kinds of rooms
  207. lovetox i try the expander thing
  208. jordi unsure how to unexpand once it's been expanded
  209. jordi I'll try to see what other software does
  210. jordi and as for editing, unsure how discoverable is double clicking on it
  211. lovetox_ nah editing i would just have in a right click context menu
  212. lovetox_ like its is already now
  213. lovetox_ or double click
  214. jordi oh sure
  215. jordi I hadn't even tried
  216. jordi lovetox, btw, the screenshot shows improvements to the nitpicks of the grab handle etc. very nice :)
  217. pep. Is LMC advertised in disco?
  218. pep. I must be blind I don't see it
  219. lovetox hm maybe not pep
  220. lovetox but what would another client do with this information?
  221. pep. Ok
  222. pep. I know poezio doesn't allow me to send corrected messages when the other doesn't support it, not sure what it checks for that
  223. pep. Link Mauve, ^
  224. pep. louiz’, mathieui ^
  225. mathieui caps / disco
  226. mathieui cf https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0308.html#disco
  227. pep. thanks
  228. lovetox i will add it to the disco :)
  229. pep. ok so apparently it's not in there
  230. pep. thanks
  231. lovetox jordi like that
  232. lovetox https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/tsaQ23K2S2H4rQva/Unbenannt.PNG
  233. lovetox https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/KpUES6YGmUM0S6Z5/Unbenannt2.PNG
  234. lovetox something in that vein
  235. pep. Maybe it would be best to display it already, partially(?)
  236. pep. but more partially than it is already
  237. pep. :)
  238. jordi lovetox, yeah, possibly that went too far
  239. lovetox ^^ yeah i will try some things out in the next days
  240. jordi try first making "gajim@c.g.o" smaller
  241. jordi and using some of that horiz space to add the bookmark button maybe