Gajim - 2016-11-22

  1. SaltyBones lovetox, let me describe what I did and saw and see what you make of it...
  2. SaltyBones I sent somebody a PM from this channel
  3. SaltyBones Got a reply and answered from conversations on my phone
  4. SaltyBones Gajim displayed the text that I wrote in this chat window
  5. lovetox yeah i noticed also strange things happen with PM
  6. lovetox in groupchats
  7. lovetox i had it one time, that everything i wrote was displayed under the nick of the other contact
  8. lovetox and everything he written was under my nick
  9. SaltyBones x)
  10. lovetox question is, can you reproduce it
  11. SaltyBones it's reproducible even though conversations says delivery failed :)
  12. SaltyBones But it all ends up in here.
  13. lovetox so gajim choses the wrong window
  14. lovetox to display it
  15. lovetox i look into it
  16. SaltyBones cool, want me to create a ticket?
  17. lovetox hm no let me see if i can find it fast and fix it
  18. lovetox could you open up the xml console, and send a message from conversations
  19. lovetox so the error occurs
  20. lovetox and then see how that stanza looks thats incoming into gajim
  21. lovetox and show me
  22. SaltyBones gna
  23. SaltyBones can't find it anymore
  24. SaltyBones I mean the XML console...
  25. SaltyBones ah...seems I have the common ubuntu bug of the menu not working and it hasn't been a problem so far.
  26. SaltyBones Any other way to get to the advanced window?
  27. lovetox add this to your gajim startup whatever linux config
  28. lovetox export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0
  29. SaltyBones O_o
  30. lovetox then menus should work
  31. SaltyBones the hell is going on there? :)
  32. lovetox ubuntu with that unity global menu..
  33. lovetox its just not working ok like gajim does it
  34. lovetox but its not easy to fix
  35. Link Mauve Oh, btw, this weekend I started looking at integrating GtkApplication into Gajim, for now I only have it parse the arguments but it will give a ton of other benefits.
  36. lovetox lol i did the same today, but didnt come very far
  37. Link Mauve I’ve had to use GApplication at work lately, and it’s very useful.
  38. lovetox yeah we need it
  39. lovetox because of menus
  40. lovetox they dont export well now, for example in unity
  41. lovetox or on mac
  42. lovetox but that we can export them we need GActions on them
  43. lovetox and they only work with a GApplication
  44. Link Mauve Ok, so please pull my repository. :)
  45. lovetox nice :)
  46. lovetox but a thing because i stopped looking at it
  47. lovetox i thing that maybe some people dont want to miss in gajim is
  48. lovetox that you can start more than one instance
  49. lovetox and i looked at that for GApplication
  50. lovetox and it seemd insanly complicated
  51. lovetox with remote and local and primary instances
  52. lovetox Oo
  53. Link Mauve Hmm?
  54. lovetox yeah wit GApplication if you start it again, the primary instance will get the activate signal
  55. Link Mauve It’s a good thing to do away with that though, it will allow it to be spawned by multiple ways, for example clicking on an xmpp: link, or having an applet in whichever panel you are using.
  56. lovetox i know ..
  57. lovetox i mean my first thought was also, lets cut it
  58. lovetox but for developing it is often useful..
  59. Link Mauve Can’t you just use a different session bus if you want to do that?
  60. lovetox can you with gapplication?, i dont know what a session bus is :) i only know how to install gajim on ubuntu :)
  61. lovetox yeah but either way
  62. lovetox i also think we should move to Gapplication
  63. lovetox and think later about how to get second instances working
  64. Link Mauve It’s a different DBus connexion, where you can’t contact programs running on other ones.
  65. lovetox about LooseVersion
  66. mathieui lovetox, about that PM issue, could it be carbons bug?
  67. lovetox no its a conversations bug
  68. lovetox as it seems
  69. lovetox conversations doesnt address to the nick
  70. lovetox it adresses a pm to
  71. lovetox not to
  72. mathieui oh, weird
  73. lovetox yeah SaltyBones will open an issue about it later
  74. lovetox Link Mauve, version comparison is a problem in python
  75. Link Mauve lovetox, and it works for pms? oO
  76. Link Mauve lovetox, not really, setuptools fixes that.
  77. lovetox yeah so let us add the dependency too nbxmpp also
  78. lovetox LooseVersion has quite some issues, as i read
  79. lovetox for example it cant compare 1.1.1a > 1.0.0
  80. lovetox ah im an idiot
  81. lovetox not to nbxmpp
  82. lovetox its already added i think to gajim
  83. lovetox so we can use pkg.parse_version
  84. lovetox its already beeing used in the plugin installer
  85. lovetox SaltyBones
  86. lovetox can you send me a PM from conversations at all?
  87. lovetox i mean one that doesnt show up here in groupchat
  88. lovetox does conversations support PMs Oo
  89. SaltyBones no clue, stopped using group chats with it because it ate my battery x)
  90. SaltyBones doesn't look like it
  91. SaltyBones it only offers "add to contacts" as options on other people
  92. SaltyBones but when I initiate a PM from gajim it gets displayed there...
  93. lovetox click long on the avatar
  94. lovetox and try
  95. SaltyBones does nothing
  96. lovetox it should show a menu with private message
  97. lovetox to choose
  98. arune Long pressing an avatar gives "send private message to" in the input box below
  99. lovetox ah :)
  100. lovetox do you have the same problem that messages you write me in pm, are displayed in the groupchat arune?
  101. arune It's not a bug, it's a feature
  102. arune
  103. lovetox ahhh i get it
  104. arune iNPUTmice wanted away with pms
  105. lovetox because there is no own window for pms
  106. arune So it's displayed in the muc as "whispered"
  107. SaltyBones tries to leave the MUC with conversations.
  108. arune Muc pms does not work well mam
  109. arune And new users are confused by muc pms
  110. SaltyBones Bloody hell everytime you ping me it pops up on my phone again. :/
  111. SaltyBones I just didn't notice the description of the input box change...
  112. lovetox ok arune
  113. lovetox but that doesnt mean the message should be addressed only to the groupchat
  114. SaltyBones jeez
  115. lovetox because then another client, even another conversations client could not identify it as pm
  116. SaltyBones had to restart gajim twice!
  117. SaltyBones TWICE! :D
  118. lovetox :D
  119. SaltyBones after the first restart it added an imaginary "gajim" contact to my roster and was convinced that I cannot join this MUC because "it is not a group chat"
  120. lovetox salty bones can you again send me a xml stanza
  121. lovetox because the last one you sent me had a text in it, that i never received..
  122. lovetox so im not convinced ..
  123. SaltyBones uh...send you a stanza of what?
  124. SaltyBones ah now I get it
  125. lovetox send me a pm from conversations and , copy the xml stanza you receive on gajim
  126. lovetox click "clear" on the xml console before
  127. lovetox so its easier to find the thing
  128. SaltyBones it doesn't work from conversations
  129. SaltyBones it says delivery failed
  130. SaltyBones so you wouldn't get it
  131. lovetox ok but now you cant write me a pm?
  132. lovetox and this message "PM" showed up here in groupchat in gajim?
  133. SaltyBones no, this opened a new window for you
  134. SaltyBones The seems to be that if I PM you with gajim first conversations opens a new window for you as well.
  135. SaltyBones But conversations doesn't deal with PMs in windows...
  136. lovetox so this was just a misunderstanding, of the way conversations works with pm
  137. lovetox we have no bug?
  138. SaltyBones No, there is definitely a bug in conversations.
  139. SaltyBones It gets carbons from gajim and then opens a PM window which should not exist.
  140. Holger That's more of a protocol issue.
  141. Holger Carbons just don't play well with PMs.
  142. SaltyBones Okay, I don't see the problem but I haven't really thought about.
  143. SaltyBones it
  144. Holger The problem is that there's no standard way for Conversations to distinguish MUC PMs from normal 1:1 messages.
  145. lovetox hm is a muc pm not adressed at groupchat/nick
  146. lovetox and a normal message to the full jid
  147. Holger It's addressed to your personal JID else it wouldn't arrive :-)
  148. SaltyBones If that's true, how does conversations know which messages to display inline in the MUC?
  149. SaltyBones Or does it only do that for outgoing PMs?
  150. Holger lovetox: The 'from' JID is a MUC JID, but how would Conversations know that this is a MUC?
  151. Holger SaltyBones: If Conversations is joined to that MUC it knows it's a MUC.
  152. Holger SaltyBones: If it's not joined to the MUC it doesn't.
  153. Holger There's a non-standard convention to add some <x/> tag to MUC PMs. Some servers implemented that recently, and the same servers would usually use it to suppress carbon copies for PMs.
  154. Holger So it depends on the servers involved.
  155. SaltyBones So essentially they used a heuristic to determine if a message is a PM and when their heuristic fails you get a broken state? Still sounds like a bug to me.
  156. SaltyBones Why would you suppress carbons of PMs?
  157. Holger SaltyBones: You can call it a bug, I'm just saying it's a protocol bug, not a Conversations bug.
  158. SaltyBones :)
  159. Holger SaltyBones: There's nothing sane Conversations could do about it without a protocol change.
  160. SaltyBones But the bug in the protocol would only be not supporting what Conversations wants to do....
  161. Holger SaltyBones: You would suppress Carbons because the other client might be receiving the same PMs from the MUC service. Under certain circumstances. It's complicated. That's what I meant when I said these things don't play well together.
  162. Link Mauve Holger, and by protocol change, you mean adding a mention that said <{muc}x/> should be present? :p
  163. SaltyBones x)
  164. Holger Link Mauve: Yes.
  165. Holger Or ditching anonymous rooms and MUC PMs ;-)
  166. SaltyBones Okay, now it sounds like there is actually a protocol bug which is that PMs are sent by multiple entities. :)
  167. Holger That doesn't describe the problem well, but yes.
  168. Holger SaltyBones: If you're interested in some of the gory details, see:
  169. Link Mauve I quite like anonymous rooms, it’s not as cumbersome as using an actual anonymous JID.
  170. SaltyBones I really need to get back to work. x)
  171. Link Mauve Oh right, going to work.
  172. lovetox Link Mauve
  173. lovetox is the code under
  174. lovetox app = GajimApplication()
  175. lovetox even executed?
  176. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [16216:7dad93b4f1c9]: Fix wrong label in preferences. Fix wrong label in preferences.
  177. Link Mauve lovetox, in the future it won’t, but since we don’t do anything in the startup it will currently return immediately.
  178. lovetox ahh ok haha
  179. lovetox i didnt see that
  180. lovetox so its like a suspect, does not return
  181. lovetox as long as the programm is running
  182. lovetox so lets everything move into startup?
  183. Link Mauve Yep.
  184. Link Mauve That’s the goal.
  185. lovetox ok i experiment a bit with your patch
  186. lovetox :)
  187. lovetox only thing is, we have to take caution i think, because with GApplication we are in the region that some methods are only in very recent glib versions or not?
  188. lovetox i guess gajim should at least work on something like ubuntu 14.04
  189. Link Mauve These people have their 0.15.4 already, let them rest in peace with their known bugs.
  190. Link Mauve Right, Ubuntu 14.04 only has glib 2.40, which means they won’t have g_application_add_main_option() which was added in 2.42.
  191. Link Mauve But catering to those people is a lost cause imo.
  192. SaltyBones let's go back to ncurses
  193. SaltyBones or do a webgui
  194. Link Mauve I’m already using ncurses.
  195. SaltyBones for?
  196. Link Mauve Try poezio, it’s a nice client.
  197. Link Mauve The client I use.
  198. SaltyBones you're contributing to gajim but using something else?
  199. Link Mauve Yeah, I don’t like Gajim much.
  200. SaltyBones squints.
  201. SaltyBones ...why...
  202. Link Mauve Mainly because it integrates very badly in my environment, and the UI is pretty poor.
  203. SaltyBones more like, then why are you contributing?
  204. Link Mauve Oh hmm, good question. ^^'
  205. Link Mauve Maybe because it was my first good client, and I want to have something to tell my contacts to use.
  206. mathieui yeah, gajim was the first xmpp client that I used for a long time, and it’s nice to have a graphical modern client with few bugs
  207. SaltyBones I think most text UIs are pretty terrible.
  208. SaltyBones There is just no decent way to discover things are find what you are looking for when you have forgotten the details.
  209. SaltyBones s/are/or/
  210. mathieui well, the interface doesn’t have a cascade of menus or submenus, so it’s either in front of you or behind a command
  211. mathieui hopefully you can get help on the available commands
  212. SaltyBones sure but usually that's a mess of going to google and searching in the man page and looking at the --help output of things
  213. mathieui well, that’s not a text ui
  214. mathieui that’s a command-line ui then
  215. SaltyBones well, I know what you mean
  216. SaltyBones but look at irssi for example
  217. SaltyBones or tmux
  218. SaltyBones or vim
  219. mathieui I have no issues with the two last ones
  220. SaltyBones I use them as well but finding something is still a fucking pain in the ass.
  221. mathieui vim has :help which is perfect
  222. mathieui and tmux as prefix-? which is good enough
  223. SaltyBones I mean I think that with a GUI you can display information better in some circumstances but in general I am not against text based UIs at all. I just think most of them are pretty terrible.
  224. mathieui I agree that GUIs outside of ncurses can display information better, yeah
  225. SaltyBones :help linenumber -> something about tcl
  226. SaltyBones :help number -> something about god knows what
  227. SaltyBones at this point I give up and go to google
  228. SaltyBones and all this for something like "view -> line numbers"
  229. Holger GUIs are more intutive because you perform most actions by clicking through menues and knobs, which are easier to discover than commands, but often at the expense of efficiency.
  230. Holger So I think easy GUI interfaces are nice for software you only use once in a while.
  231. SaltyBones Agreed, but for every software I use there are features I only use once in a while... :)
  232. Holger While powerful but less intuitive interfaces may be just fine for tools you use every day, such as your editor or XMPP/email/whatever stuff.
  233. SaltyBones But it's pretty easy to fix actually...all you need is a really good :help function
  234. mathieui SaltyBones, well, you have to learn to use the help at some point
  235. mathieui :help 'number' gives you all the help you need
  236. Holger SaltyBones: I think the Vim features I just use once in a while are simply not available in most GUI editors :-)
  237. SaltyBones mathieui, how am I supposed to know I need to look at 'number' instead of number?
  238. mathieui SaltyBones, I don’t know, it’s just something that comes naturally at some point because the help always quotes options as well :)
  239. SaltyBones but I mean....
  240. SaltyBones I don't know the name of the option
  241. SaltyBones what I really need is some way to say "turn on line numbers" that will get me what I need
  242. mathieui SaltyBones, :options then ^^
  243. mathieui you have an index of all options with a description
  244. mathieui you can even search for "line number"
  245. SaltyBones yeah but not for "line", not for "number" and not for "linenumber" and not for "lineno" ;)
  246. mathieui well you can for the first two
  247. mathieui but you will have more matches
  248. SaltyBones yeah
  249. SaltyBones Well, maybe I can't convince you. :)
  250. mathieui you can convince me that vim is totally unintuitive if you don’t know your way around (but you don’t really need to)
  251. SaltyBones It's just that imho most text UIs are command based and I find that a bit annoying. It has the advantage of scriptability, though.
  252. SaltyBones And let's not forget about context menus! Those are just fucking brilliant!
  253. SaltyBones right clicks in the chat window.
  254. SaltyBones Well, they can be. :)
  255. SaltyBones Anyway, text UIs are great. I will stop complaining now.
  256. SaltyBones Plus, you can totally do mouse support in text UIs which at least removes the argument about context menus.
  257. Link Mauve SaltyBones, not really, AFAIK ncurses has no way to give you a menu.
  258. SaltyBones ah, bummer
  259. SaltyBones Also a problem with text UIs in general is that they are all built on top of sequential output and weird ascii sequences and other legacy stuff
  260. SaltyBones The whole C-q C-s mess for example... yuck
  261. Link Mauve That’s a feature of your terminal emulator. ^^'
  262. SaltyBones The fact that these shortcuts aren't used anywhere isn't. ;)
  263. Link Mauve You mean everywhere?
  264. SaltyBones hm?
  265. Link Mauve It’s extremely useful whenever you have a huge amount of text and want to stop at some point.
  266. Link Mauve (But can be overriden by ncurses.)
  267. SaltyBones Sure, but there are more modern solutions to that scrolling
  268. SaltyBones but because that still exists no terminal applications use those for quit and save which is what they ought to do
  269. Holger What's the modern solution for jumping to the beginning of the previous word, sentence, or paragraph? Or for moving them to a different place, or deleting them?
  270. Holger These are the kind of things that are just way more efficient done with "weird ascii sequences and other legacy stuff" than by performing the same actions with the mouse, and you do that all day long in your editor.
  271. Holger Well, I do :-)
  272. SaltyBones Well, to some degree I agree...
  273. SaltyBones but
  274. SaltyBones 1) These things are only for efficiency and completely optional. i.e. if you don't do it a lot you don't need to know
  275. SaltyBones 2) I think commonly it is ctrl+left/right for jumping words and the others don't exist
  276. SaltyBones 3) For moving to a different place I don't even know how to do it in vim. x)
  277. Holger Yes I was just arguing efficiency (while you mentioned only scriptability).
  278. Holger But the good thing about such discussions is that everybody can just continue using whatever software he likes :-)
  279. SaltyBones Well, I'm not super convinced by the efficiency argument. After all the hardest thing about programming is not formatting the code. ;)
  280. SaltyBones I just care about the discussion because of reasons like ssh I like text UIs a lot and I think they could be better. :)
  281. SaltyBones and somehow half of my sentences today are total train wrecks
  282. lovetox Link Mauve, i made this now, moved everyting into startup
  283. lovetox the roster window is now a Gtk.ApplicationWindow
  284. lovetox
  285. Link Mauve lovetox, awesome!
  286. Link Mauve I’ll test that tonight after work.
  287. Link Mauve (Just arrived. ^^')
  288. lovetox Link Mauve, i port the application menus to GMenus
  289. lovetox wit GActions
  290. lovetox then all that is left in my opinion is porting to GNotifications
  291. jsk Aye lovetox
  292. Link Mauve :)
  293. jsk Whack372
  294. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Ticket #8467 (No Smileys are displayed if use from Another Device (Conversations)) created Bug description No Smileys are displayed if use from Another Device (Conversations) Steps to reproduce use a Smiley from Conversations from my Smartphone (LG G4) and its not Displayed in Gajim Software versions OS version: Win Prof. GTK version: PyGTK version: Traceback (most recent call last): File "src\", line 10[…]
  295. lovetox hm Link Mauve, these Gio.Menus are somehow limited
  296. lovetox its easy to make menus with it, but there seem to be no events we can catch
  297. lovetox right now we catch the click on the menu event, and build the menu with current online accounts for groupchat etc
  298. Link Mauve I’ve never worked with those, sorry.
  299. oplife Hi all, I'm having troubles with activating Gajim OMEMO plugin on Ubuntu Studio 16.04... Anyone who can help? Error message: (E) gajim.plugin_system.omemo 'module' object has no attribute 'default_pool'
  300. jsk Oplife
  301. oplife jsk: Yes? :)
  302. jsk What version are u running
  303. oplife 0.16.5
  304. oplife It's Ubuntu Studio 16.04 LTS and I followed instructions at
  305. jsk Have u tried reinstalling gajim?
  306. oplife Can try, thought wasn't needed when looking at instructions.
  307. jsk Yea sometimes works for me
  308. oplife jsk: Still "2016-11-22 22:09:45 (E) gajim.plugin_system.omemo 'module' object has no attribute 'default_pool'"
  309. jsk Ill try when at my computer in a few mins
  310. jsk Feel free to add my jid...
  311. oplife jsk: talk to you there
  312. SaltyBones GtkWarning: /build/gtk+2.0-KsZKkB/gtk+2.0-2.24.30/gtk/gtktextbtree.c:4019: byte index off the end of the line gtk.main() (gajim:3526): Gtk-ERROR **: Byte index 507 is off the end of the line Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)
  313. SaltyBones anybody interested in this? :)
  314. SaltyBones erik?