Gajim - 2016-10-14

  1. linus What's the minimum gtk3 version required by the default branch?
  2. lovetox linus i wouldnt try with something below 3.12
  3. lovetox some of the UI files have attributes and elements that depend on 3.14 and higher
  4. lovetox i believe though, that probably are not elemental things, like you could start probably the client without them
  5. zak regarding GTK 3: How can I disable this shitty "we-believe-directories-should-be-displayed-between-normal-files-in-the-file-dialog"-behavior?
  6. zak Yeah I know I can google, but maybe someone knows immediately
  7. lovetox i dont know, but what do you mean with directorys displayed between normal files
  8. lovetox how do you navigate if you dont have directorys?
  9. zak Since the beginning of computer file dialogs back in the good old days, directories were displayed /before/ common files.
  10. lovetox it is like that for me
  11. zak For some reason GTK designers decided there should be no distinction, and in some gtk3-file-selection-dialogs they are sorted in between the files.
  12. lovetox are you talkin about a gtk 3 file dialog in gajim?
  13. lovetox or in general?
  14. zak No, I mean in general.
  15. zak But I found the solution:
  16. zak It seems to impact the gtk 3.14 file chooser
  17. zak For what I have seen from GTK3 up to now, I don't like it unfortunately :(
  18. Link Mauve zak, I never noticed that, but in my terminal they are also sorted by filename only.
  19. Link Mauve With leading punctuation ignored.
  20. Link Mauve I prefer it that way.
  21. zak That's correct. But if I have to choose a certain file, that doesn't make any sense. First you navigate to the directory where your file is, then you select the file. If directories are spread amongst the files, it makes it harder to perform these two steps.
  22. Link Mauve I press the first letters of the filename in this case.
  23. Link Mauve Or any letters.
  24. zak Yes, that's the common "use your keyboard" argument I heard so often from GTK3-lovers. Still it doesn't invalidate my point.
  25. zak When I am working with the keyboard, I use the terminal, when I use a graphical application with an UI, I use the mouse. Using both mouse and keyboard is sometimes of course necessary, but if the mouse is already in use, the task should be performed efficiently completely with it.
  26. zak But I didn't want to start Yet Another GTK3-discussion ;)
  27. zak When I am working with the keyboard, I use the terminal, when I use a graphical application with an UI, I use the mouse. Using both mouse and keyboard is sometimes of course necessary, but if the mouse is already in use, the task should be performed efficiently completely with it (if possible).
  28. SouL yeah
  29. Link Mauve Oh, I never use the mouse in graphical applications either, but I get your point.
  30. zak You navigate websites with the keyboard only? :-O
  31. Link Mauve Yeah, I use Vimperator, it makes the web usable.
  32. lovetox i added the gajim package repo for debian
  33. lovetox when i type sudo apt-get install python-nbxmpp-nightly
  34. lovetox it always installs it into 2.7
  35. Link Mauve lovetox, you probably need python3-nbxmpp-nightly.
  36. Link Mauve Debian still defaults python to python2.
  37. lovetox that package is not available
  38. lovetox there is only on package on the server
  39. lovetox it works for python3 and for python2
  40. lovetox but how do i tell him to install it into python3 folder, is this something the package has to handle normally?
  41. lovetox so has there be a second python3 package
  42. lovetox to make this work?
  43. lovetox or is this possible with one package, and it gets installed depending on what program requests it
  44. lovetox for example its a dep to gajim-default
  45. lovetox and gets loaded with it
  46. lovetox so it knows that and install itself to python3
  47. Link Mauve lovetox, it doesn’t work for both, it needs a separate package.
  48. lovetox ah i just clone it and install it with pip
  49. Link Mauve Just get Asterix to build it against both.
  50. lovetox ok, i messaged asterix about that :)
  51. lovetox whats the difference between
  52. lovetox apt install xxx
  53. lovetox and apt-get install xxx
  54. lovetox i have to say, the more i work with linux the more i appreciate it
  55. lovetox some things you can do really quickly and efficient
  56. lovetox though you need a certain knowledge for it, and to aquire that is not that easy
  57. zak @lovetox: apt-get seems to be a kind of backend for apt, see:
  58. zak There is of course aptitude as well ;)
  59. zak And: Yes, it is not always easy, but at least you /can/ acquire the knowledge. I had often discussions with windows people and in the and the solution was something like "it's just the way it is"
  60. Link Mauve lovetox, same thing basically, apt is newer, and was meant to have a more consistent, user-friendly interface.
  61. lovetox yeah though some linux versions go the same way, like ubuntu
  62. lovetox the lock down more and more things
  63. Link Mauve Ubuntu is just Debian, really.
  64. lovetox or at least make it much harder to change
  65. lovetox Link Mauve
  66. lovetox you were right btw
  67. lovetox with ubuntu 16.10
  68. lovetox the bug is gone
  69. Link Mauve Ok.
  70. lovetox so it seems tied down to a specifc version of gtk or glib
  71. lovetox another thing i would like to debug is
  72. lovetox if i join a channel like gajim
  73. lovetox from clicking the join button
  74. lovetox to seeing all members and chat
  75. lovetox it needs 2 seconds
  76. lovetox on windows 10-15
  77. lovetox i can see this, the stanzas flow in really slowly compared to linux
  78. lovetox i hope this is not because python is more integrated into linux or something like that
  79. JKing Yeah, my first time joining a MUC was so slow I thought it had crashed.
  80. Link Mauve lovetox, btw, you wanted to use 3.18 on Windows but it’s EOL so it won’t ever any new fix:
  81. lovetox i didnt want, its what i could use
  82. lovetox because for 3.18 there are python bindings
  83. lovetox if i understand this correctly
  84. lovetox for higher versions there are not
  85. Link Mauve There are no Python bindings per se anymore, only gobject-introspection files for any language, and python-gobject that can use those.
  86. Link Mauve Since 3.0, it was one of the big changes over 2.x.
  87. lovetox so what is this then
  88. lovetox
  89. lovetox why is there something "for win" then
  90. Link Mauve python-gobject?
  91. Link Mauve Dunno.
  92. Link Mauve Ah, it’s apparently just an installer.
  93. Link Mauve You can safely ignore that.
  94. Link Mauve lovetox, for your MUC issue, you should probably run it in a profiler, see cProfile for example.
  95. lovetox ok thanks
  96. lovetox Link Mauve
  97. lovetox would this be enough?
  98. lovetox python -m cProfile -o gajimstats
  99. lovetox i dont find the file
  100. Link Mauve It should be gajimstats in the current directory.
  101. lovetox ok but no need to do more than that
  102. Link Mauve I would also -s tottime.
  103. lovetox should work
  104. Link Mauve Yeah.
  105. lovetox page says, -s only applys when -o is not supplyed
  106. Link Mauve It doesn’t here, are you sure you are running python3?
  107. Link Mauve Even python2 doesn’t say that.
  108. lovetox no its from the python docs
  109. lovetox
  110. Link Mauve Ah ok.
  111. lovetox but maybe this is badly written and it means something else
  112. Link Mauve You can stop supplying -o and see if it prints something in your terminal once you exit Gajim.
  113. lovetox nice tool Link Mauve
  114. lovetox but now i have the data and it makes absolutly no sense
  115. lovetox for example
  116. lovetox i run gajim the same time 60 seconds
  117. lovetox on win and ubuntu
  118. lovetox same account
  119. lovetox performed one groupchat join
  120. lovetox calls to
  121. lovetox on windows 5 times as much as on ubuntu
  122. lovetox or calls to {built-in method isinstance}
  123. lovetox on windows 5 times as much as on ubuntu
  124. lovetox WTF
  125. lovetox simple call to, is executed 10 times more then on ubuntu
  126. lovetox on windows there has to be some loop going on
  127. lovetox doing the same stuff over and over or something
  128. lovetox otherwise this makes no sense
  129. lovetox is there a way to log all fired gtk events somehow?
  130. Link Mauve lovetox, yeah, use GtkInspector.
  131. Link Mauve lovetox, ^
  132. lovetox yeah i dont think its that anymore, i brought it now down to both calling the nearly the same things the same time
  133. Link Mauve Ok.
  134. lovetox problem is do i see file operations with this
  135. lovetox like how long they need
  136. Link Mauve You will see how long read() takes, but that’s all.
  137. Link Mauve Or write().