Gajim - 2016-10-07

  1. arune hello
  2. arune when installing gajim on a new computer, will all old MAM messages be fetched?
  3. noon hello
  4. Link Mauve arune, yes, all. :/
  5. noon is in nbxmpp/ in the class SASL the function "plugout" ever used?
  6. linus Quite possibly not
  7. linus (I.e. I don't know, but there's so much dead code in and around gajim...)
  8. noon yes. I shifted my focus from gajim to nbxmpp to make there some changes.
  9. noon there are a lot of mutable default parameters in functions which can lead to really nasty behavior.
  10. noon I first understood what can happen after elrond gave me some examples
  11. linus Yeah... Not great :p
  12. noon I think, this is a bug in the python language. cause the expected behavior (I asked some colleges and students at work) is so different from the actual behavior
  13. linus Well, the behaviour you'd assume
  14. linus But it can improve performance if they're heavyweight objects
  15. linus And it allows things that are otherwise impossible
  16. noon maybe they should have choosen an other syntax for the usecase with heavyweight objects.
  17. linus Regardless, it's not a bug — it's specified that way and it always has been
  18. noon I changed the code so the default parameter is None and check in the function for this. If you like, you can review the patch. It is in the nbxmpp trac
  19. linus where is the nbxmpp trac? >_>
  20. linus oh, found it
  21. linus noon, it looks to me like none of the cases where you changed it actually modify any of the default parameters, copying them first instead if necessary
  22. noon linus, this is true, but so it is easier for new people to understand what the code should do
  23. noon without the need to look if the default parameter could have been changed
  24. bullgard4 A programming error has been detected: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/nbxmpp/", line 497, in dispatch handler['func'](session, stanza) File "/usr/share/gajim/src/common/", line 1868, in _messageCB conn=self, stanza=msg, File "/usr/share/gajim/src/common/", line 76, in push_incoming_event self._generate_events_based_on_incoming_event(event_object) File "/usr/share/gajim/src/common/", line 98, in _generate_events_based_on_incoming_event if new_event_object.generate(): File "/usr/share/gajim/src/common/", line 1167, in generate if form['FORM_TYPE'] == 'urn:xmpp:ssn': File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/nbxmpp/", line 1721, in __getitem__ raise IndexError('No such field') IndexError: No such field"
  25. de-facto how can i start gajim minimized to system tray on login? i copied the .desktop like "sudo cp /usr/share/applications/gajim.desktop /etc/xdg/autostart/" but which command line argument would i have to add to Exec=gajim in there to have it in system tray only in gnome-shell?
  26. de-facto ah is it show_roster_on_startup == never in the config editor?
  27. lovetox try it
  28. de-facto yup seems to work as expected
  29. Link Mauve I know many people who’d like that.
  30. Link Mauve I wonder if it would be possible for Gajim to detect it’s been autoloaded, if anything in the environment or arguments or whatever is different.
  31. linus that seems like a bad idea
  32. linus an option would be better IMHO
  33. Link Mauve linus, an option exists, despite that I know many users who are just annoyed by it and close the window everytime they open their computer.
  34. Link Mauve linus, an option exists, despite that I know many users who are just annoyed by it and close the window everytime they log in.
  35. Link Mauve I wasn’t even aware of it.
  36. Link Mauve Another issue is that Gajim should never in any case “use the systray” when the user’s environment doesn’t use that metaphor.
  37. Link Mauve I haven’t found a solution for that, it still fully disappears whenever I click the cross in the roster instead of exiting, for example.
  38. linus hm yeah
  39. lovetox thats easy fixable
  40. lovetox oneliner
  41. lovetox there is a trac issue that fixes that
  42. lovetox
  43. lovetox no thats actually the thing that created the problem ^^
  44. lovetox Link Mauve:
  45. lovetox and instead of finding some way to detect if there is a systray on a system
  46. lovetox which sounds complicated to do for multiple systems
  47. lovetox gajim should not hide by default (got to the systray)
  48. lovetox to go to the systray should be an activateable option
  49. Link Mauve lovetox, I’d agree, if there was no such user.
  50. lovetox i dont understand
  51. lovetox what user :)?
  52. Link Mauve The user who installs Gajim, set it as autostart, and then close the annoying window that pops up whenever they log in.
  53. lovetox i dont understand, what that has do to do with the issue, you could also start gajim in the launcher bar or whatever it is called on that system
  54. lovetox i was talking about that ‎Link Mauve‎: I haven’t found a solution for that, it still fully disappears whenever I click the cross in the roster instead of exiting, for example.
  55. Link Mauve Yep.
  56. Link Mauve Bottom line is: desktop metaphors that are not the same everywhere lead to broken behaviours.
  57. lovetox but i dont have to know, what a desktop does have or not
  58. lovetox GTK will do the right thing on every system
  59. lovetox if i say iconify() it will do what ever the devs on that system wants it to do
  60. lovetox if i say hide() it will do something else
  61. Link Mauve Well, every desktop since Windows 95 has had this metaphor.
  62. lovetox so hide() is drastic, it can lead to not be able to see the window anymore
  63. lovetox so it should only be done if the user actively sets this option
  64. lovetox i dont think that iconify() will make the window unrecoverable on ANY system that uses gtk
  65. lovetox if it would that would be something to report to GTK/Distribution people :)
  66. Link Mauve My desktop doesn’t have a concept of task bar. :p
  67. lovetox so then iconify() on your system should do nothing
  68. lovetox that would be the right behaviour
  69. Link Mauve I don’t think GTK+ people want to support iconify anymore btw, they removed it from their window decorations for instance.
  70. lovetox what does gajim if you click minimize?
  71. Link Mauve I don’t have a minimize button in Gajim.
  72. lovetox so how do you hide an application but dont close it
  73. linus by moving it to another workspace for example
  74. Link Mauve Yeah, that.
  75. Link Mauve But I generally don’t do that, I close them.
  76. lovetox and if you want it back you go searching for it on your workspaces?!
  77. Link Mauve Or leave them behind.
  78. linus lovetox, having 10 windows open on 3 workspaces is a lot more manageable than having 10 windows in one taskbar
  79. linus especially if you have a little preview of each one available
  80. lovetox ok be as it may, it seems like if your system breaks with the usual concepts, gtk should adapt its methods like minimize etc to the workflow of you system
  81. linus GTK is developed primarily for GNOME
  82. linus so it will be adapted primarily to GNOME's use cases.
  83. Link Mauve lovetox, GNOME did away with the task bar as well.
  84. Link Mauve But I don’t use it.
  85. linus Link Mauve, what do you use actually? Does Weston do window management as well? I don't really fully understand its function, I know it's a Wayland compositor but I don't know what exactly that means :)
  86. Link Mauve Weston; yes; it’s the program charged to accept buffers from other programs, and draw them on the screen.
  87. Link Mauve To make it simple.
  88. Link Mauve Oh, and give them input too.
  89. linus so what takes care of positioning the buffers on the screen?
  90. linus Is that Weston too?
  91. Link Mauve Yes.
  92. lovetox why do you click the red X in gajim if you dont want to close the application? what do other application on your system when you press the X?
  93. Link Mauve linus, it’s actually not “positioning” them, any buffer can be drawn zero or more times.
  94. lovetox this seems like you use old behaviours from other systems
  95. linus Link Mauve, right... And what does it look like? :p
  96. Link Mauve lovetox, I know people who just want to remove that window from their view, yet don’t want to get disconnected and miss messages from their contacts.
  97. lovetox of course, but you told me there is no minimize on your system
  98. lovetox so they cant make it go away with clicking the X
  99. Link Mauve linus, first screenshot looking like my environment:
  100. lovetox they would have to send it to another workspace like they do with other applications
  101. Link Mauve Except I don’t have the top window bar, and my terminal is maximised.
  102. linus I see
  103. linus and anything else will appear with similar window decoration
  104. lovetox looks stunning :D
  105. linus ?
  106. Link Mauve lovetox, ah, I’m talking about my personal system which has no concept of either task bar, systray or minimize, some other DEs do.
  107. lovetox yes but i talked about you
  108. linus That window has a minimise button :p
  109. lovetox what do you expect from a application on your system if you click the X
  110. Link Mauve I don’t know anyone but power users and GNOME users who don’t have any of those three.
  111. Link Mauve lovetox, I’d like them all to close when I press that button. :)
  112. lovetox thats an option you can set in gajim :)
  113. Link Mauve But I generally fall back to ^Q, which works in more programs.
  114. Link Mauve lovetox, I don’t use Gajim. :p
  115. Link Mauve And I wouldn’t expect every GNOME user who install Gajim to know about it.
  116. lovetox why do you care then about : ‎Link Mauve‎: I haven’t found a solution for that, it still fully disappears whenever I click the cross in the roster instead of exiting, for example.
  117. Link Mauve linus, this window is weston-terminal, indeed; not all programs do, in particular no GTK+ program does.
  118. Link Mauve lovetox, I care about users. :)
  119. de-facto on my gnome-shell i wanted it to connect when i login (so i dont miss any messages), but i didnt want it to show up the roster (because i probably want to do something else, and can bring it up from systray when i need it later then). therefore i set it to hide always on launch, yet if for example i start it directly (from /usr/share/applications/gajim.desktop) in gnome shell it also would hide. therefore it would be desireable to have a cmd line argument i can add into /etc/xdg/autostart/gajim.desktop to start it hidden on login, but start it visible on normal invoke (from gnome-shell)
  120. lovetox this goes in circles, i talk about solutions for users, you say its not working on your system, i give you a good behaviour for your system, you say that doesnt help other users :D
  121. Link Mauve lovetox, erm, you talked about a solution for a very small subset of users: the ones who will be able to look up into the ACE to find an option to disable, exactly like de-facto just did.
  122. de-facto i think a cmd line argument would solve it for almost all systems because users could choose and setup the behaviour
  123. de-facto and most of them would know about cmd line options i guess
  124. lovetox em, im using software since 20 years now, and i think the option to start minimzed is in like every application in the options menu
  125. Link Mauve de-facto, users don’t choose, they install the program, and stop using it if it doesn’t work properly.
  126. lovetox so you could say from the ones that want it to start maximized
  127. lovetox you cant satisfy every need, thats why you have options
  128. Link Mauve de-facto, pretty much no user will ever use a command line.
  129. de-facto hmm i even used cmd line arguments back in my old windows days (with the shortcuts/properties)
  130. Link Mauve lovetox, well-hidden options like that are pretty useless, tbh.
  131. Link Mauve de-facto, just make your mother use Gajim, and observe her.
  132. Link Mauve Or father or aunt or anyone you know who isn’t particularly technically-minded.
  133. Link Mauve You’ll be surprised.
  134. linus Link Mauve: which client do you use?
  135. de-facto just saying a cmd line argument would enable the users (those who care to lookup the --help) to choose how they want to launch it
  136. lovetox if that would be the goal, you would lose other people, you cant have something that is simple and rich on options at the same time
  137. Link Mauve linus, poezio.
  138. de-facto and there is always the two cases a) startup minimized on login and b) startup maximized when explicitely launched
  139. Link Mauve lovetox, advanced options are nice for advanced users, but for the vast majority of users you want the software to just work.
  140. de-facto in first case users might get annoyed if it always pops up on login, in second case they even might think its broken when not showing up when explicitely launched
  141. linus Link Mauve: does it do HTTP Upload?
  142. Link Mauve linus, nope.
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  147. hotzpotz Hi there!
  148. hotzpotz Can I set gajim to dsplay chat window and/or desktio notification on incoming messages in MUC, liko on other chats?
  149. hotzpotz oh, again...
  150. hotzpotz Can I set gajim to display chat window and/or desktop notification on incoming messages in MUC, like on other chats?
  151. hotzpotz Activating "notify_on_all_muc_message" does the notification part, auto-opening the chat window would be great.
  152. arune I think that in single Window mode the chat should definitely pop out, that would improve multi client support as well (unless gajim gains feature to know what has been read in other clients)
  153. hotzpotz Also in single window mode the chat does not pop up. Only notification in systray and notification in contact window (animation left of the MUC name.
  154. arune That's fine with me though ☺
  155. hotzpotz OK, maybe my use case is ill
  156. hotzpotz :-)
  157. hotzpotz thank you