Gajim - 2016-10-02

  1. lovetox Link Mauve, http upload is a terrible hack?
  2. Link Mauve Yeah, why?
  3. lovetox why?
  4. Link Mauve Because there are already much better alternatives, like 0234 coupled with whichever transport you want.
  5. Link Mauve Well, not *terrible*, but it’s not good as used currently.
  6. Link Mauve Especially not when clients are like “oh, let’s put the URL in the body and let the recipient decide what to do with that”.
  7. Link Mauve *That* is the terrible hack.
  8. Link Mauve HTTP Upload itself is just a very poor way to upload something.
  9. lovetox conversations uses oob tags to identify it as a httpupload
  10. Link Mauve 0066 is another XEP I consider very bad, it doesn’t give any information about what it contains, only free-form data for the user.
  11. lovetox i would have liked a httpupload namespace :)
  12. lovetox so you are saying we could use jingle to upload something to our server?
  13. lovetox because i think there should be a way to send something without direct p2p
  14. Link Mauve You are missing the point, it doesn’t matter in any way for the recipient whether a particular HTTP URI has been uploaded from the client or through some other mean, what matters is what is this particular URI, how should it be used, what does it mean.
  15. Link Mauve Things like XHTML-IM’s <img/> tag are already much better.
  16. Link Mauve It describes that it is an image, it adds an alternative text or explanation, it supports not only HTTP URIs but also XMPP ones, etc.
  17. Link Mauve I sent an email to standards@ about extending XHTML-IM with a more media-rich profile, containing <picture/>, <video/>, <audio/> and how to use these three, <source/>.
  18. Link Mauve It never got any traction, maybe I should implement it first to show why it’s useful. :)
  19. lovetox i think nobody would argue with you that metadata about the file sent are useful
  20. Link Mauve Then, please stop putting a random URI in the body like you currently do, and worse trying to interpret it as a meaningful thing, it’s terrible for every future client.
  21. lovetox yeah and other people have something against XHTML and dont want it
  22. linus What I think would also be very nice is having some way of specifying multiple options, perhaps through the use of more advanced HTTP servers
  23. lovetox i agree its not optimal right now
  24. linus To allow image scaling for instance, so clients can choose to receive a smaller image on mobile broadband connections
  25. lovetox i dont know linus, if i want to transfer a picture
  26. lovetox i see no reason why my contact only wants half of it
  27. lovetox pictures are not that big
  28. Link Mauve linus, that’s the purpose of the <picture/> element, fyi.
  29. Link Mauve lovetox, they are. :p
  30. Link Mauve lovetox, not everyone has a fiber connection and unlimited 4G data everywhere.
  31. lovetox but he would have to download to scale, if the sender scales this makes no sense
  32. linus lovetox: I have 500MB of mobile data a month. If I receive a 4MB image, that's almost 1% of my allowance
  33. lovetox so dont autodownload links? i think that option is in every serious client
  34. lovetox how should i know what connection you have and scale approprietly?
  35. lovetox i want to transfer a file to you, if your connection doesnt allow it, dont accept
  36. Link Mauve lovetox, please read that:
  37. Link Mauve You obviously don’t have to download in order to know which sizes are available.
  38. lovetox ah nice idea
  39. lovetox so we could outsource this to the server even
  40. lovetox i upload a picture, server scales to 2 or 3 quality options
  41. Link Mauve Yes.
  42. linus Yes that's what I was sayinh
  43. Link Mauve And then modify the message on the user’s behalf?
  44. linus Of course that puts more load on the server and will probably be another option that won't be provided on many servers like HTTP upload itself
  45. tmolitor ‎Link Mauve: no, you cannot send the image directly in the xhtml because XMPP allows only about 4kb of stanza size...and using the img tag to load the picture doesn't work for clients not supporting xhtml...and xhtml itself is error prone because it opens security holes when you don't implement it the only way to do what you suggested was to send a thumbnail via xhtml...
  46. linus tmolitor: he wasn't saying to send the image in the xhtml
  47. Link Mauve tmolitor, of course not.
  48. linus Just to use an IMG tag so that the semantics of the URL are well defined
  49. Link Mauve tmolitor, and “it opens security holes when you don't implement it right” is true for approximately 100% of everything you may implement.
  50. tmolitor linus, Link Mauve: yes...but that only works for xhtml enabled clients...
  51. tmolitor Link Mauve, yes of course :) but for xhtml it is particulary right...
  52. Link Mauve tmolitor, which are the vast majority, clients not implementing that should do it.
  53. Link Mauve tmolitor, not really, no.
  54. Link Mauve I’ve seen far more security issues due to people using web engines for their client, than for XHTML-IM itself.
  55. tmolitor Link Mauve, yes...if you just use some web engine as drop in for xhtml you would have multiple security and privacy issues...
  56. tmolitor sorry I have to go...just wanted to answer quickly...
  57. tmolitor (and thats what most implementations do sadly)...
  58. Link Mauve tmolitor, people do that with message body as well. :)
  59. Link Mauve Or with nicknames.
  60. Link Mauve Or with any text displayed to the user really.
  61. linus Link Mauve: do what with message body or nicknames?
  62. Link Mauve And no, I don’t know of any current implementation directly putting XHTML-IM in their web engine.
  63. Link Mauve linus, put them in their DOM as-is, with potential HTML tags inside. :)
  64. linus Oh right
  65. Link Mauve XHTML-IM defines a safe and small profile of XHTML, so you don’t have those issues.
  66. Asterix Hi lovetox
  67. lovetox hi
  68. Asterix what's the status of the automatic windows build?
  69. lovetox i have it only for the default branch
  70. lovetox and its not possible to make it fully automated, like that it uploads automatic to the ftp, but you can compile the exe on appveyor without needing to setting up anything
  71. lovetox and when it is finished you can download the exe and upload it to ftp
  72. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [16134:ce73cff770a7]: correct release date correct release date
  73. Asterix yes, that's fine. Is it running correctly? Last version on gajim server is old
  74. Asterix ho ok. Can't we have a cron job doing that?
  75. lovetox probably, translation is not working in gtk3
  76. lovetox thats due to a bug it seems, i reported it, some other people also
  77. lovetox but there is basically no reaction ..
  78. lovetox there are some work arounds, like when you parse the glade file, you could send every text that is in a "translateable" tag, through the translate function
  79. Asterix that's not that important until we do a real release, but quite strange. is there no GTK3 program running under win with translation!?!
  80. Asterix wow ...
  81. Asterix if we need ...
  82. lovetox but it worked only on some windows i dont know why, its quite a mess
  83. lovetox but yeah translation is least of my worries
  84. lovetox it seems we have some threading problems in the default branch
  85. lovetox for example if i have long contact list like 15+ people
  86. lovetox i cant connect to any server anymore, because some gtk stuff blocks the whole programm
  87. lovetox im trying to get into it
  88. Asterix ok. could you explain me how you run the build?
  89. lovetox i install python 3.4 then i download gtk 3.18 from here
  90. lovetox
  91. Asterix set the topic to Welcome to the official room of Gajim. Gajim 0.16.6 is now released! Try it! Language is English. If you have something to ask, just ask. Don't circle around with questions like "Have anyone used Gajim on Windows?"... New bugs at New bugs about a plugin at Paste in shots in room logs in Spread Gajim!
  92. lovetox install only gtk+ package
  93. Asterix 0.16.6 released!
  94. lovetox and launch via the bat file
  95. lovetox in the folder
  96. Asterix no I mean on the biuld system
  97. lovetox am you can see the commands that are issued in the appevoyer file in the repo
  98. Asterix yes, but how to I ask appveyor to run the build
  99. Link Mauve Asterix, no blog post yet?
  100. Asterix wait ...
  101. Asterix trac isn't updated yet ...
  102. Asterix just uploaded the files
  103. lovetox thats the annoying part, right now you have to import that repo to bitbucket for example, then you log in at appevoyer using your bitbucket account, you click new project, click the repo you have on bitbucket, and from that on it runs with every commit automatically.
  104. lovetox its pulls the appveyor file out of the repo
  105. lovetox and executes the commands
  106. lovetox it has to be github and bitbucket, becasue only these two are supported right now, with pulling an appveyor file
  107. lovetox you can use other repos aswell, but you have to type all commands into some forms that are normally in the appveyor file
  108. lovetox it is possible
  109. lovetox but not that easy
  110. Asterix will be easier when we'll have a gitlab?
  111. lovetox one moment
  112. Asterix I'm trying with the mercurial url
  113. Asterix build started ...
  114. Asterix ssl error :/
  115. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [16135:7e9f231826e8]: Added tag gajim-0.16.6 for changeset ce73cff770a7 Added tag gajim-0.16.6 for changeset ce73cff770a7 • WikiStart edited (diff)
  116. lovetox it will only clone the repo and apport
  117. lovetox abort
  118. lovetox because it will not pull the appvyor file
  119. lovetox so it will not execute any commands
  120. Asterix strange that it can't get the appveyor file by cloning the repos :/
  121. lovetox it could probably but it is not supported
  122. lovetox log in to bitbucket, import the repo
  123. Asterix and their gitlab is only for :/
  124. Asterix I'd prefer not using bitbucket :/
  125. Asterix or
  126. lovetox its possible without
  127. lovetox but then we have to setup one account
  128. lovetox i configure everything there
  129. lovetox i tell you if i have it
  130. Asterix an account where? bitbucket?
  131. lovetox no appevyor
  132. lovetox i thought
  133. lovetox everyone could do builds
  134. lovetox like posting the repo, file is pulled , build is made
  135. Asterix I just created an account
  136. lovetox but this is only possible with github, etc
  137. lovetox if you want to use your own repos
  138. lovetox you cant use appvyor file
  139. lovetox you have to put all commands in the settings of your account
  140. lovetox so not everyone would be able to simply build
  141. Asterix ok
  142. lovetox only that setup sepcial account would work
  143. lovetox but for us that would work
  144. lovetox so i try to do this today
  145. linus wouldn't it just require a webhook set up?
  146. lovetox i dont know, on the appvyor support there is no information on that
  147. linus of course appveyor has to be notified of new commits somehow, it should be able to do that regardless of whether you're using github, bitbucket or something else, it just can't configure itself
  148. lovetox it can do that
  149. lovetox it knows when a new commit is made
  150. lovetox but it doesnt pull the configuration file out of the repo
  151. lovetox
  152. lovetox maybe this helps?
  153. Asterix lovetox: where do you put build commands in the appveyor site? I see for environment variables, but not commands
  154. lovetox you go to Build
  155. lovetox then click Script
  156. lovetox and then you can choose between CMD and PS
  157. Asterix ok ok, then I copy the install part of the yml file
  158. lovetox this will not work but try it :D
  159. lovetox the yml file is mixed CMD and PS
  160. lovetox here you can only put in one
  161. lovetox thats why it isnt that easy
  162. Asterix ok ... so you can't mix cmd and ps in the online configuration of appveyor?
  163. lovetox i mean most of it is CMD
  164. lovetox yes
  165. lovetox thats so fucking stupid
  166. lovetox you could probably do all in PS
  167. lovetox but im not expierencend enough
  168. lovetox there are only two ps lines
  169. lovetox the download of the gtk files
  170. lovetox and the patch for google protobuf
  171. lovetox the download, is a link to a ps script
  172. Asterix somw wget commands could do it maybe?
  173. Asterix but do we have wget in the build environment?
  174. lovetox i dont think wget is in windows cmd
  175. Asterix curl when
  176. Asterix curl then
  177. lovetox powershell is much more powerful
  178. lovetox maybe its better to write all in ps
  179. linus ‎[13:48:20] ‎lovetox‎: powershell is much more powerful who would have thunk!? :p
  180. lovetox :D
  181. arune Is it released?? No news on yet
  182. Asterix yes ... wait ...
  183. linus
  184. linus tmolitor, ^
  185. lovetox thanks linux, will try it later
  186. lovetox linus :D
  187. Asterix linus: why removing libasyncns and nslookup resolvers?
  188. Link Mauve Asterix, GLib now provides SRV resolving.
  189. Asterix linus: (in the get_resolver function)
  190. linus because they're not necessary
  191. linus GLib will be available wherever Gtk is necessary
  192. Link Mauve In a proper, portable, non-hacky way.
  193. linus so they're bloat
  194. linus I did it in separate commits so whoever merges my changes can make the executive decision on whether to actually throw them out
  195. linus but I recommend it :)
  196. Link Mauve TXT records would be helpful behind proxies, in order to use the BOSH endpoint of the target server automatically.
  197. linus right
  198. Asterix since which GLib versino does it work?
  199. Link Mauve linus, in start_resolve, type_ can be either 'txt' or 'srv', nothing else?
  200. linus it's currently not done though, and there's no clear format as far as I can see for how TXT records would be returned
  201. linus Asterix, 2.22
  202. Asterix so not avaliable in debian stable for example ...
  203. linus Link Mauve, that's what all the old code assumed
  204. Link Mauve linus, ok.
  205. linus Asterix, debian stable has 2.42
  206. linus I'm running it :)
  207. linus and 2.48 in backports
  208. Link Mauve Asterix, even Wheezy had 2.33.
  209. Asterix ho yes, sorry
  210. Asterix nice then!
  211. Link Mauve Fyi, the Pidgin devs also moved to Gio, also to replace their previous proxy implementation.
  212. linus even CentOS/RHEL 6 have 2.28 :P
  213. Link Mauve linus, just reviewed it, LGTM.
  214. linus Great :)
  215. lovetox LGTM?
  216. linus Looks good to me /let's get that merged
  217. Link Mauve ^
  218. lovetox proper coder slang :D
  219. Asterix arune: website updated
  220. arune Great! Congratulations everybody on the best release yet!! And many thanks for all the great fixes!
  221. stefano Wow. Somebody already flagged the package 0.16.5 out-of-date on
  222. linus Probably someone here?
  223. Link Mauve Yup, I did.
  224. zak Hi! Big Thanks for all the effort from me as well! Does the win-installer now include some plugins like omemo? Or is this scheduled for a later release?
  225. lovetox no it does not, but at least the dependencys
  226. zak :-( okay
  227. stefano Is there something i must do that gajim listen on dbus? „LANG=C gajim-remote check_gajim_running“ returns false. And D-Feed (dbus browser) shows no results if i search for gajim on the session bus.
  228. linus stefano: I believe it's a plugin you need to enable
  229. Link Mauve stefano, you should just have a session bus running in your session.
  230. Link Mauve As long as you started both Gajim and gajim-remote on the same session bus it will work.
  231. Link Mauve linus, dbus support is in core.
  232. stefano I started booth (gajim + remote) in a terminal on from the same session.
  233. stefano And there should be a session bus because i see a lot of topic under „Session Bus“.
  234. linus Link Mauve: I seem to remember it being a plugin that lives in the core repo
  235. linus
  236. Link Mauve Oh.
  237. stefano But how can i activate it? I don't find a dbus or D-Bus with the Plugin Installer. A naive " = True" in ~/.config/gajim/config also doesn't help.
  238. linus stefano: does gajim write anything about the plugin to stdout/stderr?
  239. stefano Not in normal mode. I restart with "--verbose".
  240. stefano A grep for dbus and D-Bus (case insensitive) show me only messages from this chat.
  241. linus which version are you on?
  242. stefano The files in the gajim package: I doesn't see a "dbus_plugin" here.
  243. stefano 0.16.6. Fresh build
  244. stefano Here is the PKGBUILD i use:
  245. stefano Should there be a folder like /usr/share/gajim/plugins/dbus_plugin/ ?
  246. linus It's possible that gajim's configure script doesn't install the plugins in the core repo
  247. linus Try checking out the core repo at 0.16.x and copying plugins/dbus_plugin to ~/.local/share/gajim/plugins/
  248. stefano Now the plugin is here and activated. But gajim-remote check_gajim_running reports again false.
  249. stefano Now there is a topic „org.gajim.dbusplugin“ on the session bus. But gajim-remote looks for a „org.gajim.dbus“ to check if there is a listener.
  250. linus oooh, it looks like there are actually two D-Bus interfaces
  251. linus the one gajim-remote uses is controlled by the remote_control setting (see ACE)
  252. stefano Jep. The description of the Plugin: „D-Bus support. Based on remote_control module fromGajim core but uses new events handling system. “
  253. lovetox Asterix
  254. lovetox ive made it with appveyor
  255. lovetox i write together how to do it
  256. Asterix lovetox: nice! thanks
  257. lovetox
  258. lovetox here
  259. Asterix stefano: no plugin needed. only python-dbus package
  260. lovetox you will get errors, because there is a bug in cxfreeze, but its not important for the build, but officially the build will not succed but it does put the working exe file into ARTIFACTS
  261. lovetox where you can download it
  262. Asterix building ...
  263. lovetox needs up to 3 minutes :)
  264. lovetox and after that you could google for appveyor ftp deployment, and put login data into the "on finish script"
  265. lovetox if you have no problem with providing these data to appveyor
  266. Asterix I'll do an account just for that
  267. arune Daily default branch builds for Windows and Linux coming?
  268. lovetox windows doesnt seem to be a problem anymore :)
  269. Asterix lovetox: indeed I have an error. Is it the one you have?
  270. lovetox yes
  271. arune Release often release early ☺
  272. lovetox thats no problem though
  273. Asterix linux ... the script is there, but it doesn't work :/
  274. lovetox there are some other also
  275. Asterix yes, a lot of red ...
  276. Asterix and that finishes with red ...
  277. lovetox yeah should still upload the exe file
  278. Asterix where to get the .exe?
  279. lovetox top of the page
  280. lovetox ARTIFACTS
  281. Asterix nothing there
  282. lovetox what was your last line?
  283. Asterix
  284. lovetox Cannot find path 'C:\projects\gajim\'
  285. lovetox did you set it as clone directory?
  286. lovetox in ENVIROMENT
  287. Asterix I may have forgotten the s ...
  288. lovetox 3rd line in the log has to be this
  289. lovetox hg clone -r default c:\projects\gajim
  290. Asterix indeed, I forgot the 's'
  291. lovetox and again .. :D
  292. lovetox i did 30 builds today until i reached the state that works :D
  293. Asterix they have big CPUs :)
  294. lovetox i kind of feel bad, like im really wasting their resources
  295. lovetox and i dont even pay something
  296. Asterix build done.
  297. Asterix is it possiblte to cron builds?
  298. Asterix not on every commit, but daily
  299. lovetox hm i asked my self the same but didnt find an answer
  300. lovetox it seems it builds on every commit
  301. lovetox quite wasteful
  302. lovetox have to go, im back later
  303. Asterix lovetox: Project does not have successful builds to deploy.
  304. lovetox you can, configure it to deploy even on unsucessful builds i thing
  305. lovetox can you send me the login data
  306. lovetox so i can test
  307. stefano Asterix, python2-dbus + python-dbus is installed and working. Tested it here
  308. Asterix lovetox: use yours
  309. lovetox k
  310. stefano Solved! Line 2770 of [1]: Activate dbus interface only if remote_control is set to true. But this flag is default false! See [2]. [1]: [2]:
  311. stefano Thanks everybody for the hints.
  312. Asterix stefano:
  313. stefano linus write this already at 18:07:16 UTC. I overlooked it…
  314. stefano But the positive side is: Now i know something more about the Gajim code :)
  315. tmolitor linus, what's that link to the gio-resolver patch?
  316. linus
  317. tmolitor asterix: do you want to merge that or should I? :)
  318. tmolitor I would merge that into the default branch and you can decide if you want to merge it to 0.16, too :)
  319. mmlosh now this is very strange. I see^W saw my contacts as online I see^W saw my participation here as active Yet my account has^W had the "globe/connecting" icon, which later turned into "offline - has errors" Still, my contacts appear online with debian's Gajim 0.16. There is nothing in the XML console. The last message from the server was a benign presence message I guess the server did not close the xmpp connection at all. I wonder if I got at least a TCP reset, or they are just sending my traffic to void.
  320. mmlosh In a nutshell: My server stopped responding. Maybe I got a tcp reset, maybe I got blackholed. Gajim responded by turning my status indicator to "connecting/globe" and then to "offline - has errors"
  321. linus tmolitor: not sure if it would work for 0.16 because it uses gi
  322. mmlosh yet, my contacts stayed in the "online" state and so did my subscription to this room
  323. tmolitor linus: ah okay, well, you are right I think...I pushed your changes to the repo :)
  324. linus thanks!
  325. tmolitor you're welcome :)
  326. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • […] • […] • […] • […]
  327. lovetox mmlosh
  328. lovetox update your gajim
  329. lovetox 0.16 is ancient
  330. mmlosh hard to believe that 0.16.6 is bleeding edge and 0.16 ancient
  331. mmlosh but sure, I don't expect any help with and old version
  332. Link Mauve Asterix, you may want to make your blog available to and in order to make more people aware you did a release.
  333. mmlosh and a version from a distro, obviously, is old
  334. mmlosh Link Mauve, you're saying that the room topic is wrong?
  335. Link Mauve mmlosh, depends on the distribution, you have distributions that stay up to date.
  336. Link Mauve mmlosh, no, it’s fine, why?
  337. mmlosh you could have staid that, because I had no idea what the current version is
  338. linus mmlosh, 0.16.6 isn't bleeding edge, it's the latest release
  339. mmlosh oh, of course. thanks for the correction
  340. mmlosh Is there a list of 'who is staying up-to-date' ?
  341. linus bleeding edge is the default branch on hg which uses pyhtno3 and gtk3 and may never be released :p
  342. mmlosh Is there a list of distros staying up-to-date ?
  343. mmlosh == when gtk3 goes "Stable" ? :D
  344. Link Mauve mmlosh, ArchLinux is, that’s the distribution I’ve been using since 2009.
  345. mmlosh Is there a distro with a good package security theather that stays up to date?
  346. linus mmlosh, that's a good question :p I'm using it and shunning 0.16 because gtk3 is the future
  347. linus mmlosh, debian sid maybe? idk how up to date it is
  348. Link Mauve mmlosh, is there anything wrong with ArchLinux’ handling of package security?
  349. mmlosh dunno
  350. mmlosh I was hoping you would know
  351. linus oh wow haha debian has gajim 0.12.1 for one architecture
  352. Link Mauve I’m not aware of any issue, it also was the first distribution AFAIK to split gpg signatures in a group of maintainers, instead of having a single key for everyone.
  353. Holger mmlosh, linus: I'm happy with Debian testing (currently 'stretch'), no need to use 'sid'. It has Gajim 0.16.5.
  354. Holger
  355. mmlosh oh. that certainly sounds good
  356. linus Holger, I was using testing until I heard that it doesn't get timely security updates while stable and sid do
  357. mmlosh "http://" and "secure" in one url?
  358. Holger linus: Yeah, Debian is no good at marketing.
  359. mmlosh wait.. sid does security fixes?
  360. mmlosh I thought "sid" was the least recommendable one
  361. tmolitor mmlosh, no sid doesn't do security fixes...
  362. Holger linus: In practice, 'testing' usually gets security fixes really fast. They just don't want to 'guarantee' the same level of support as for 'stable'.
  363. linus Holger, looking at the debian-testing-security-announce mailing list isn't very encouraging...
  364. tmolitor linus, Holger, as far as I know they don't announce security fixes for testing...
  365. linus the page says "Daily notifications about fixed security issues are sent to the mailing list." though
  366. tmolitor linus, yes but this applies only to the stable releases...
  367. linus tmolitor, that's the page that Holger linked which is explicitly about testing
  368. tmolitor I'm registered with that mailing list and sometimes they announce some security fix in testing together with the one for stable...
  369. tmolitor well mistake...I'm only on the stable announce mailinglist...
  370. linus and that mailing list is very quiet — the last announcement on it was in 2011
  371. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [16140:7798d6f62f3e]: Display version/os information correctly in VCard window On contacts … Display version/os information correctly in VCard window On contacts with multiple resources, not all information was displayed.
  372. tmolitor linus...well I would not count on timely security fixes in testing...even if they come fast sometimes this isn't guaranteed and thus worthless...
  373. linus exactly
  374. Holger linus: Yes I'm not into their workflows (I'm only on the stable announce list as well) I'm just telling from personal experience that they are fast in practice---from what I've seen.
  375. linus right
  376. Holger (Do the Arch people give 'guarantees'?)
  377. linus no idea
  378. Link Mauve Holger, nope, they just update their packages on a timely manner.
  379. linus for real guarantees of course there's RHEL :p
  380. Holger ... which still doesn't give you faster access to security fixes but helps your lawyers if you stumble over that.
  381. linus it's a start, right? ;)
  382. Holger Absolutely, if you have lawyers.
  383. linus and money
  384. linus or are those mutually exclusive?
  385. Asterix Link Mauve: my blog is alreadu on planet.jabberfr
  386. Link Mauve Asterix, hmm, I don’t see the short article about Gajim 0.16.6.
  387. Asterix Link Mauve: nor I do ...
  388. Asterix but if you correct the exams of my students, I could write it