Gajim - 2016-09-04


  1. lovetox either way you have to install the pyton-axolotl dependency
  2. lovetox but how to do this on your system is not covered by any "how to" from gajim
  3. giorgio ..that's the part I try to understand how to do
  4. lovetox so i would read guides regading AUR and how it works
  5. lovetox but i can give you a quick fix
  6. lovetox so gajim starts again
  7. lovetox without the plugin working
  8. lovetox if you want
  9. giorgio as an old bloke, grown without computers, it a bit harder to understand, how it works = needs more time... but still hoping, some day "I'll see the light!"
  10. giorgio loevetox: carry on! I would like to use gajim again!
  11. lovetox ok got to ~/.local/share/gajim
  12. lovetox whats in there?
  13. giorgio killed a few minutes ago... there is nothing (using nemo)
  14. lovetox how did you install gajim?
  15. giorgio by gui named Pamac
  16. lovetox look into /usr/share/gajim
  17. lovetox whats there?
  18. giorgio folders: data, icons plugins...
  19. lovetox ok i guess in the plugins folder
  20. lovetox there i no folder called omemo
  21. giorgio just plugin_installer in that folder...
  22. cippaciong Did you ever start gajim as root?
  23. giorgio No, never! I used it all the time it crashed bey trying to install OmEMO...
  24. lovetox ok i have an idea
  25. lovetox go again to /usr/share/gajim
  26. lovetox and search for a folder called
  27. lovetox src
  28. giorgio ...As I tried to install OMEMO sorry for my english
  29. giorgio there
  30. lovetox find the file
  31. lovetox gajim.py
  32. lovetox open it with a text editor
  33. lovetox go to line 99
  34. lovetox should look like this ....'gtkexcepthook', 'google.protobuf']
  35. lovetox add at the end axolotl so that it looks like this
  36. lovetox ....'gtkexcepthook', 'google.protobuf', 'axolotl']
  37. lovetox save the file
  38. lovetox start gajim
  39. giorgio huh, can't find gajim.py? Try another search...
  40. lovetox should be in the src folder
  41. lovetox should look like this the folder
  42. lovetox https://hg.gajim.org/gajim/file/tip/src
  43. giorgio here I found it: /lib/python2.7/site-packages/gajim/gajim.py
  44. giorgio as well as here: /lib/python2.7/site-packages/gajim/common/gajim.py
  45. lovetox take the first
  46. giorgio ...no Keywords like google or gtk to find...
  47. giorgio in this file, sorry.
  48. lovetox puh ok last straw
  49. lovetox do a system wide search for
  50. lovetox "omemo"
  51. giorgio qrx, that will take a while...
  52. lovetox delete everything you find
  53. giorgio omemo isnt installed by the way...
  54. lovetox you said gajim didnt start?
  55. lovetox with the axolotl error
  56. lovetox axolotl is only used by omemo
  57. lovetox that means it is somewhere on your system
  58. giorgio sorry, thre object with "omemo" are found...
  59. lovetox delete them
  60. lovetox is one a folder?
  61. giorgio have to restart search; cannot delete them (I try as root...)
  62. lovetox yeah it also would be interesting
  63. lovetox where these folders actually are
  64. lovetox maybe try to remember and telling us
  65. giorgio searching...
  66. giorgio wtf: no object found this time! how can that be?
  67. giorgio "ome" shows a lot of targets, "omemo" nothing...
  68. lovetox and you are sure if you start gajim the error is still there?
  69. giorgio It works!! Thanks a lot!!
  70. giorgio Now it asks me for plugins; I think not today...
  71. lovetox haha :D
  72. giorgio hey man, thanks a lot!
  73. lovetox no problem, have a good night
  74. giorgio you too! peacefull wishes! /giorgio
  75. qeap hi all
  76. zak Good morning qeap‎
  77. zak Good morning lovetox. I am just testing the latest OMEMO plugin 0.9.0 with myself in Pidgin.
  78. lovetox and what are your findings :)
  79. zak First I recognized two minor things: 1. When in the Fingerprint-Window while no entry is selected, the button "Trust/Revoke Fingerprint" can be clicked but does nothing (because nothing is selected).
  80. zak It would be better if it is disabled in this case, if that is not too difficult
  81. zak The second point is even less minor ;) 2. In the message it should say "doesn't" instead of "doesnt" ;-)
  82. lovetox ok thanks, i take it on the list for the next version
  83. Asterix Hi guys
  84. lovetox hi there
  85. zak Unfortunately I did not receive this message in Pidgin :-(
  86. zak Hi Asterix
  87. zak I get it you are the main guy behind Gajim.
  88. lovetox maybe because its your own resource, i didnt really think about that
  89. zak Well I used two different JIDs for that
  90. lovetox try it with another account
  91. Asterix well yes I'm behind Gajim since the begining
  92. zak I have account A and B, while being online with A in Gajim and B in Pidgin.
  93. zak And then sent a message from A to B using Gajim.
  94. Asterix but recently I was very busy IRL ... Hope I'll find more time now to continue
  95. lovetox thanks asterix
  96. Asterix fortunatly guys like lovetox do things while I'm not very available
  97. zak @Asterix: That would be great, I heard there are several things waiting for the next version :)
  98. Asterix yes ... a new release should be done ASAP
  99. zak Yes, that's very good.
  100. lovetox ok so this B account, has keys published and supports omemo on another client?
  101. zak Yes, I see two keys and trusted them both. I am only online with Pidgin for B.
  102. zak Ah, now I went offline and online again with Pidgin and sent another message
  103. zak Result: "(10:06:31) zak: You received a message encrypted with OMEMO but your client doesnt support OMEMO."
  104. zak :-)
  105. lovetox ah ok i see the problem
  106. zak You do?
  107. lovetox every client sends what it supports to the other clients
  108. lovetox for some reason that did only happen after relogging just now
  109. zak Hmm... well if that is a minor case, I think it's fine
  110. lovetox yeah it could also depend on pidgin
  111. lovetox i dont know under which circumstances they send this
  112. lovetox obviously at login
  113. lovetox but we are dependend on that information, i can only find out if they support omemo if they tell me :)
  114. zak I think nothing needs to be done here, as far as I'm concerned it works :)
  115. lovetox yeah :)
  116. Asterix when sending a presence, there is a hash of what is supported in it. So with this hash, either we have it in DB and we know what it support, either it's not and we disco it
  117. Asterix so as soon as we get the presence we know what it support
  118. zak I went online with account B on my smartphone now and send another message, it got received there and the dummy message in pidgin again
  119. zak But there is a red lock symbol in Conversations
  120. lovetox so it shouldnt matter Asterix, if we come online first or the other client?
  121. lovetox zak i would have to ask imputmice about it
  122. lovetox maybe because there is a plaintext message included
  123. lovetox but it shouldnt be this way
  124. Asterix lovetox: it shouldn't. In both cases we get the presense of the contact
  125. lovetox thanks asterix
  126. lovetox zak i alread asked imputmice
  127. zak well me two... :-P
  128. lovetox has to do with fingerprint
  129. zak Is there a TODO list for the next Gajim version, what needs to be done?
  130. Asterix for 0.16 branch or default branch
  131. zak well which ever should come next I guess?
  132. Asterix next release is 0.16 branch, nothing really needs to be done
  133. Asterix I need to check what has been commited, and particulary some default value for some options
  134. zak The thing is: I would like to recommend Gajim to friends maybe, but I really would like at least the OMEMO plugin to be included and activated in the windows installer.
  135. lovetox but thats a bit much zak
  136. lovetox not everybody uses that
  137. lovetox and especially for windows, where no dependencys are needed
  138. lovetox the plugin installer works easy
  139. lovetox but if you really want that i could compile you an installer for your personal use with the plugin included
  140. zak Why is it much? I disagree, it is hard as it is to encourage people to try something new. When I have to continue explaining "...and now you have to click here, and install this, and then..." people always get confused of what that all is.
  141. zak And I don't think it will bother anyone who does not need the plugin, does it?
  142. zak It just stays disabled then?
  143. zak I think the combination of a mobile client (Conversations) and a desktop client (Gajim) should work out of the box. Including Encryption.
  144. lovetox it is true that many people in the last months started using gajim because of conversations and because gajim is the only one that supports omemo
  145. zak but....? ;-)
  146. lovetox no but
  147. lovetox but
  148. lovetox na joking :D
  149. lovetox there should definitly some default plugins, like http upload which gets used nearly from everybody
  150. zak yes
  151. lovetox lets hear asterixs opinion :)
  152. Asterix not now, I have to go, BBL
  153. zak Bye Asterix
  154. baitisj I think gpg is a better default choice than omemo. you can keep chats logged on the server, and synchronize easily between clients. omemo isn't very good for multiple endpoints.
  155. zak Yes, GPG has its advantages, but it's not working out of the box. One has to configure it, manage his/her keys etc.
  156. zak The average user doesn't want to be bothered with that kind of things.
  157. baitisj yes, it takes more discipline, but there is no reason that it can't be easy, in my opinion.
  158. zak People who know GPG can activate it easy. But it shouldn't be used before OMEMO as default.
  159. lovetox but it isnt, actually you have to install additional thirdparty software for it to even work
  160. baitisj I suppose that's true.
  161. lovetox it cant be a default cause it doesnt work without setting it up
  162. lovetox default can only be something without user interaction
  163. zak Is there a Gajim-GPG-plugin? I don't see one
  164. lovetox it supports it out of the box zak
  165. zak Hu? Cool
  166. baitisj yeah.
  167. lovetox but you have to install a gpg client
  168. lovetox or agent
  169. baitisj it would be interesting if gajim could prod the agent to make keys, kinda like enigma for thunderbird does
  170. zak I do have that all. I would like to use GPG more often, but contacts don't use it.
  171. baitisj well, I guess it makes it easy for you to decide who your friends should be.
  172. baitisj think of it as a culling.
  173. zak Well I don't choose my friends depending on what encryption they choose :)
  174. lovetox you dont support pgp, i HATE YOU GET OUT OF MY LIFE :D
  175. zak :-D
  176. baitisj she refused to use gpg, so I dumped her.
  177. lovetox :D
  178. baitisj but really there's some fun stuff like keybase.io now that makes gpg a bit more compelling
  179. linus I wouldn't use PGP for XMPP because I want to use XMPP on my phone, but don't want to keep my private keys (not even the subkeys) on my phone
  180. linus Hence OMEMO :)
  181. zak Well you could create extra new keys for XMPP.
  182. linus That would make everyone's lives more complicated
  183. zak In the basics, OMEMO is just the same: keys generated for use with E2E encryption.
  184. zak Exactly, OMEMO makes it much simpler
  185. lovetox the only real advantage of pgp is the forever archive
  186. linus Well, no, OMEMO has different features
  187. lovetox but to be honest, i never had the wish to look up a message written 10 years ago
  188. zak yes, I meant the basic functionality
  189. linus I've often wanted to look up photos I sent to friends or received from them a year or 3 ago
  190. baitisj I like the forever archive
  191. lovetox dont you save your photos somewhere else?
  192. baitisj I suppose that it would be very logical to create a separate key for my phone, and I probably should
  193. baitisj leaving my private key on these slutty little machines is a recipe for theft
  194. lovetox i mean it depends also on the medium
  195. baitisj anyway, I think any move to improve encryption by default is a good one.
  196. lovetox i just never talk anything that has to last a decade on instant messaging programs
  197. lovetox email is a different thing though :)
  198. zak It would be fine by me if the history is stored locally and unencrypted for ever.
  199. lovetox it is zak
  200. zak I really mind the encryption only for transfer over wire.
  201. zak Yes, so OMEMO is fine.
  202. zak By the way: Does anybody know a *working* tool to migrate contacts from one account to another?
  203. lovetox thats really a needed feature
  204. zak I tried several yesterday, but couldn't get any to work.
  205. lovetox heard some people talking about making something like that into a xep
  206. zak Isn't there already? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0015.html
  207. lovetox WARNING: This document has been Rejected by the XMPP Council.
  208. zak Ah... "has been Rejected..."
  209. zak now I see
  210. zak that's sad
  211. zak Is there a reason given somewhere?
  212. lovetox somewhere
  213. lovetox but i guess its not the idea that has been rejected
  214. lovetox its that specific implementation of that idea
  215. zak Yes, I'm wondering how it should be handled. Because when you migrate your contacts, that affects the contacts as well. Will/Should they just suddenly yourself with a different name then?
  216. zak Yes, I'm wondering how it should be handled. Because when you migrate your contacts, that affects the contacts as well. Will/Should they just suddenly see yourself with a different name then?
  217. lovetox i think the problem is to make it safe
  218. lovetox they should get a popup, xxx changed his account to yyyy
  219. zak At least something like that should happen, yes.
  220. arune Asterix: if you release 0.16-branch, will you include an updated nbxmpp?
  221. Asterix zak: Gajim can request auth to all contacts of another account. On acctoun pref window -> administration operation -> synchronize contacts
  222. Asterix arune: of course. I'll release nbxmpp first
  223. arune Excellent, the smacks bug is really horrible
  224. Asterix nbxmpp released!
  225. zak Asterix: This will just ask all contacts of the account for permission, does it? The same as I would ask each manually?
  226. Asterix yes, but if you have 200 contacts, it's a bit long to add them all to your new account
  227. zak Okay I understand. Fortunately - or rather sadly - I only have a few.
  228. zak My thought was to *not* make everyone accept my permission again.
  229. Asterix There is no other way wihout asking them to accept you
  230. zak I understand, okay.
  231. Asterix is 0.16.6 ready to be released? Do you see things to be done before release?
  232. zak You ask me? As far as I'm concerned my only whishes would be to include and activate OMEMO and maybe HTTP upload in the default installation.
  233. zak But if that is not considered stable rigch
  234. zak But if that is not considered stable right now, I understand
  235. Asterix I ask everybody
  236. Asterix why those plugins and not all others?
  237. zak I am open to even more plugins. I personally consider these to be important.
  238. zak I use OTR as well for compatibility with Pidgin, but I think OMEMO should be the preferred choice.
  239. Asterix others may consider emoticon packs more important because they think a sexy chat is important ... you see what I mean
  240. zak Yes of course. As I said, I would be fine if emoticons are included as well.
  241. zak or other plugins
  242. Asterix I have no idea if it's stable or not, I don't use it. I use E2E for ppl using Gajim, it's automatic, nothing to configure
  243. Asterix theproble is that gajim installer is already very big
  244. zak how big are these plugins?
  245. zak I thing some MB more wouldn't hurt in todays network situation. Most people have fast internet connections, and file size in that dimension is negligible
  246. zak there is no statistic available, on how often some plugins are downloaded, is there?
  247. Asterix a few kB each, excepte emoticons: 7.2MB
  248. Asterix no stat available, but all is logged on my server ..
  249. Asterix if someone want to do a stat page, that would be nice
  250. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [16095:3e5acf1f7847]: fix authors list fix authors list https://trac.gajim.org/changeset/3e5acf1f784738fb178f1a6365e033962141faa7
  251. zak I just installed the emoticon pack
  252. zak Where can I see them?
  253. Asterix tmolitor: what's this file? http://hg.gajim.org/gajim/rev/1d8d3d27d84f
  254. zak Ah, new tab available in the Plugins window...
  255. Asterix yep
  256. tmolitor asterix: it's for the automatic nightly builds...
  257. zak Test :-)
  258. tmolitor the windows nightly of the default branch...
  259. Asterix tmolitor: ok. hmm I have to find a way to not include that in tarballs ...
  260. Asterix tmolitor: and are those build available?
  261. zak Hmm... I selected some icon themes, clicked "install/upgrade", it says that all selected emoticons were installed, but then I don't see any difference.
  262. Asterix don't you see them in pref window now?
  263. zak the pref window?
  264. tmolitor asterix: yes, they are...ask lovetox :)
  265. tmolitor zak: yes, you have to select an emoticon set in the preferences...
  266. tmolitor that's a bit strange to understand, I know ;)
  267. zak Ah, yes, found it.
  268. zak But in my opinion, these extra sets are not required in the default installation. There are already emoticons, that should be sufficient and if someone wants more, they can download them.
  269. zak The problem here is: That you only see them yourself, meaning if you activate a set you like for yourself, and send someone an emoticon and he has activated a different set, then the result is not as expected.
  270. Asterix zak: I could argue that there is already GPG and E2E in Gajim, you can download OMEMO and OTR if you want ...
  271. Asterix tmolitor: I see last upload on 24th of august
  272. zak Yes I see your point. But I think we should decide, what should be the default for common users. And I have good expectations for OMEMO being the new XMPP default encryption.
  273. zak But of course, other opinions welcome
  274. Asterix zak: the problem is that everybady will have different opinion depending on its own experience
  275. zak and as I said, OTR does in my opinion not need to be included, I mentioned that only because I have installed it.
  276. tmolitor zak: I would second that....omemo and otr have the widest support range, I think...
  277. zak I am happy to leave this open to discussion
  278. zak yes, they do.
  279. zak I can only speak for myself
  280. tmolitor and omemo is included in more and more clients (chatsecure, conversations, gajim, ...)
  281. Asterix OTR is also very widely used because it's supported by more clients
  282. zak OMEMO has the best features and is easiest to use, so I hope this will be the new default.
  283. tmolitor asterix: I know, but I think otr will eventually superseded by omemo...it's only a matter of time...
  284. zak My proposal: Include OMEMO and OTR, but only activate OMEMO by default, to encourage people to use it.
  285. tmolitor because it can do everything otr is capable of plus a few things more (muc encryption etc.)
  286. tmolitor zaks: sounds reasonable for me...
  287. Asterix OTR is not maintained anymore for a long time. Not sure it's a good thing to include it
  288. zak ok, then leave it out. You are right, if it needs to be activated, it then can be downloaded as well.
  289. zak by the way, what do you mean with "E2E in Gajim"? the TLS based connection?
  290. Asterix non
  291. Asterix an old deprecated encryption system
  292. Asterix there is an XEP for it
  293. Asterix but it has never been implemented except in Gajim
  294. zak okay... then that doesn't sound too good
  295. Asterix it is ... nothing to configure to use it. just chat with someone and if it supports it, it's automatically enabled
  296. zak you have the XEP-number for me?
  297. Asterix 116
  298. zak But I assume it would not work with multiple clients online at the same time, does it?
  299. Asterix no, it's resource to resource
  300. zak otherwise it sounds good. wonder why id wasn't supported further (in other clients)
  301. Asterix but I don't think ppl with multiple resource online are the majority
  302. Asterix it has never been proved it was secure (nor the oposite)
  303. zak I think this is one of the main reasons to use Jabber. Nowadays people have a desktop pc, a mobile, a tablet,... and being able to write and receive the same messages transparently from every device I think is very nice.
  304. zak And I think no other messaging app can do that really good.
  305. zak But of course the way instant messaging is used, changed dramatically in the last years.
  306. tmolitor zak, asterix: yes, so omemo would support the usecase of a single resource AND the (in my opinion more and more frequent) use of multiple resources...
  307. tmolitor --> omemo should be the new default
  308. zak I am just thinking: Is there an XEP for creating a poll? :-)
  309. tmolitor I don't think so ;)
  310. arune Asterix: I guess the 0.16.5 issue was with windows that didn't come bundled with the latest nbxmpp
  311. arune Asterix: there's a lot of people in here and in Conversations muc asking about omemo in gajim (I know it can be a bit of hassle to get the deps working)
  312. lovetox on linux its out of the question right now to bundle it, i think its better to maintain a separate omemo package on the distris
  313. lovetox like debian unstable and AUR for arch does
  314. lovetox seems the better way
  315. lovetox for linux useres this would also be more natural, just to install an additional package, i think
  316. lovetox Asterix, about the appveyor file, this should only be in the default branch, for now, it has to be in the repo because it works like this
  317. lovetox you log in to appveyor
  318. lovetox clone the repo
  319. lovetox and then it automatically makes those building steps that are described in the appveyor file
  320. lovetox basically someone who wants to build gajim for windows now, has to do nothing but give the adress of the repo
  321. lovetox the reason why there are no nightly builds on the server is, i didnt have time to find out how to make appveyor deploy this on the ftp without putting the ftp login data into the appveyor file
  322. lovetox does your ftp maybe support some other login mechansims that we could use here ?
  323. lovetox but even without automatic deployment, it would be really easy to just upload a version every few days
  324. lovetox but i have to work on it still, its not totally ready for now
  325. lovetox but anyway this should have nothing to do with the 0.16 branch
  326. arune lovetox: the appveyor file in 0.16-branch could be removed?
  327. lovetox its not there
  328. lovetox its only in default
  329. lovetox Asterix does it make sense to modify the MIN_NBXMPP_VER = "0.5.3" to 0.5.4 now in gajim.py?
  330. arune lovetox: is there a compatibility issue?
  331. lovetox hm no
  332. lovetox you are right, doesnt have to be made the same
  333. lovetox although it would be good if everyone uses the newest version
  334. arune lovetox: doesn't the package manager handle that?
  335. lovetox i think there is also a min version there, so no if the min version is 5.3 and you have 5.3 installed i dont think it upgrades only because something newer is there
  336. lovetox and Asterix, maybe you want to take this patch also into 0.16
  337. lovetox https://hg.gajim.org/gajim/rev/29bba5077cf9
  338. lovetox it seems version comparison was always broken
  339. lovetox also this is very useful when trying to get a reason why a plugin doesnt load
  340. lovetox https://hg.gajim.org/gajim/rev/26510f3ca340
  341. lovetox though the problem only occurs with version numbers equal or greater 10
  342. lovetox "0.16.10" > "0.16.6"
  343. lovetox gives False for example
  344. lovetox so it could be left out of 0.16 branch if we think that it doesnt make it till 10
  345. zak that's clearly a bug, and should be fixed even if there will be no 0.16.10
  346. zak maybe there will be a 0.17.10, then the problem would come up again
  347. lovetox zak the plan is to switch to gtk3 branch
  348. zak when?
  349. lovetox before 10 :D
  350. lovetox because gtk branch is 0.16.10
  351. lovetox gtk3
  352. zak 0.17.10 or 0.16.10 ?
  353. lovetox gtk2 branch is 0.16.5 now
  354. lovetox and gtk3 is at 0.16.10
  355. zak and 0.16.6 ?
  356. lovetox 0.16.6 is obviously another gtk2 version
  357. lovetox but it can only go to 0.16.9
  358. lovetox then there will be no more version
  359. lovetox its dead then
  360. zak aha... and the next release will be...?
  361. lovetox 0.16.6
  362. lovetox another version of gtk2
  363. zak okay
  364. Asterix lovetox: for the automatic win build, maybe my server can login to the website to run the build, and then download it from there and put it in the repoas?
  365. Asterix lovetox: for the min version of nbxmpp, it's not really required, of course it's better but not a must
  366. lovetox maybe, i will dive into this a bit more and tell you if i find a good solution
  367. Asterix and yes version comparison should be included, I'll transplant that
  368. Asterix hehe .. no need to transplant. No version comparaison in 0.16 branch
  369. arune Asterix: I've tested the default branch on windows (with lovetox build on gajim ftp) and it works really well for my use case
  370. arune Only minor graphical issues I found
  371. lovetox if we have linux nightlies for the default branch, i think more people will try it, and get more feedback what doesnt work
  372. arune lovetox: yes, I think an alpha might also get more people testing
  373. Asterix yes it's plannes to build those nightlies ...
  374. lovetox Asterix
  375. lovetox how soon until you release the new version, because it seems you deleted
  376. lovetox https://gajim.org/downloads/snap/win/gajim_0.16.5_axolotl.exe
  377. lovetox i got reports of the broken link on github
  378. tmolitor asterix: what about nightly linux builds of the default branch?
  379. lovetox [19:27:16] ‎Asterix‎: yes it's plannes to build those nightlies ...
  380. tmolitor I see :D
  381. Leo hi gajimers!
  382. lovetox hi
  383. Leo is astonished to see a jabber room with more than 3 people :D
  384. Leo i have been searching, wheres the people at?
  385. Asterix lovetox‎: oups yes I removed it today. I didn't know it was used, sorry ...
  386. Asterix gajim default tarball should be build this night. Debian package not ready yet. need to update depends list and things like that
  387. lovetox Leo: conversations@conference.siacs.eu
  388. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim Plugins • Changeset [935:0f2217962d18]: added missing png files back (must have been lost in the py2 to py3 … […] https://trac-plugins.gajim.org/changeset/0f2217962d187225a54d720dea081787f4250908 • Changeset [936:fb518dfcbc82]: Make plugin_installer more robust to filepath layout changes Make pl[…] https://trac-plugins.gajim.org/changeset/fb518dfcbc82aee38b00959c18d99eac243aa100