Gajim - 2016-08-24


  1. jubalh it seems that one cannot disable OTR/OMEMO encryption in gajim. only if one disalbed the plugin completely.
  2. jubalh thats pretty strange
  3. jubalh what if i want to disable it with _one_contact but not all?
  4. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Ticket #8355 (Does not recognize gpg-agent) reopened Hello, Sorry for reopening this, but I am afraid the fix is not the appropriate one. I mean, it will fix things for a moment, but GnuPG int[…] https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8355#comment:9 • Ticket #8355 (Does not recognize gpg-agent) updated This is discussed in the Debian bug ​https://bugs.debian.org/834399 . In message[…] https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8355#comment:10
  5. kartoffelsalat jubalh: can't you click on the omemo icon in the chat window and disable it?
  6. jubalh i can click on it to verify it
  7. jubalh not close it it seems
  8. jubalh (for otr)
  9. lovetox jubalh, just deaktivate it in the chatwindow
  10. lovetox though if you receive an encrypted omemo message, it activates it self again
  11. lovetox arune: https://gajim.org/downloads/snap/win/
  12. lovetox gajim-0.16.10-4cf1ee5.exe
  13. lovetox thats the one you want
  14. lovetox and here clone or download as zip the python3 branch of the omemo plugin
  15. lovetox https://github.com/lovetox/gajim-omemo/tree/python3
  16. lovetox but its not totally finished, there are some issues still with the port of the plugin
  17. Link Mauve lovetox, oh, that is a working nightly build of the default branch?
  18. lovetox for windows, probably not interesting for you or?
  19. Link Mauve Indeed, I don’t use Gajim so it doesn’t interest me personally at all. :p
  20. lovetox i think default can be released, some things dont work, but nothing thats really important
  21. lovetox like video/audio, i think no one really uses that anyway
  22. Link Mauve The current state is abysmal. :/
  23. lovetox maybe some layout issues
  24. Link Mauve I should try it again for like half an hour and list all of the pain points I could find.
  25. lovetox yeah please
  26. Link Mauve But I don’t have any time to spend on fixing that. :x
  27. lovetox if you count out layout/design and audio and video
  28. lovetox i didnt find something in my daily usage
  29. Link Mauve Layout is actually quite important.
  30. lovetox it is !
  31. Link Mauve It’s how most people will judge the quality of a software.
  32. Link Mauve That and crashes.
  33. Holger Wat.
  34. lovetox but its also fixed quite quickly if someone points it out
  35. Holger It crashes all day long last time I tried.
  36. Holger ... which was a few days ago.
  37. Holger I thought a release would be far far away :-)
  38. lovetox problem is, i dont care about testing it on 25 linux distributions :D
  39. Link Mauve lovetox, I’ll test it on a single one, and you fix the issues I’ll find, is that fine for you? :D
  40. lovetox so you can continue to not using it haha
  41. lovetox but yes i will try :)
  42. Link Mauve should have done QA, not software engineer. :D
  43. lovetox also maybe linus could chime in :)
  44. Link Mauve Of course I will, as if I was going to use a graphical client!
  45. Holger Gtk:ERROR:/build/gtk+3.0-r8o0d4/gtk+3.0-3.20.9/./gtk/gtkrbtree.c:471:_gtk_rbtree_insert_after: assertion failed: (_gtk_rbtree_is_nil (tree->root))
  46. Holger I dunno, are you interested in core dumps?
  47. lovetox no thanks
  48. lovetox does this error come without interaction?
  49. linus Odd, I don't get crashes much at all
  50. Holger During startup, without interaction.
  51. lovetox and i see you use 3.20
  52. linus And I'm not sure how much I can do with a core dump but I'm sure it would be at least somewhat helpful
  53. Link Mauve lovetox, I also use 3.20.9.
  54. Holger Yes this is on Debian stretch with 3.20.9.
  55. lovetox and you dont get that error linus?
  56. Holger On Debian jessie with an older 3.x it wasn't crashing as often, but it's still unusable for me.
  57. Holger I wouldn't have expected these things to be so distro-specific so I thought most-everybody would run into at least some of these issues.
  58. Holger But if that's not the case I can start creating bug reports.
  59. Link Mauve On ArchLinux I haven’t had any crash in a long time.
  60. Link Mauve But it’s not like I use this client. :p
  61. Holger I just wanted to create Gtk 3 screenshots for our docs but didn't get that far :-P
  62. lovetox hm
  63. lovetox i think i will install debian jessie in VM and look how it goes
  64. Link Mauve lovetox, Stretch*?
  65. lovetox oh sorry
  66. Holger It's some months ago that I tested on jessie.
  67. lovetox yeah was misreading
  68. Holger I could re-test that at work tomorrow.
  69. linus I run jessie
  70. Holger And I can perform more tests on stretch.
  71. Link Mauve Holger, oh, btw, make sure you don’t have any of the gtk2 plugins enabled, I had some crashes at startup when I first updated.
  72. Holger (I.e. use a fresh account and whatnot.)
  73. Link Mauve Which is obviously something that should be fixed.
  74. Holger Link Mauve: Okay thanks, I'll check that too.
  75. lovetox it is now link mauve
  76. lovetox in a recent patch
  77. Link Mauve Great. :)
  78. Holger As I said I just assumed that everyone has issues so I didn't put any effort looking into the details.
  79. lovetox the system that determines the version numbers for the plugins, was broken
  80. lovetox i hope its something trivial holger, and not some issue with GTK versions
  81. linus I've barely had any issues myself for some reason, maybe it's also a matter of the plugins — I basically only use httpupload
  82. linus Oh yeah, I didn't get around to testing OMEMO lovetox, sorry
  83. lovetox yeah there is "cant decode blabla" unicode utf8 error
  84. lovetox its happening everytime you get an encrypted message
  85. lovetox but i cant debug it because, it only prints the error without line number or anything
  86. lovetox i dont know where to find it, maybe you can help
  87. Link Mauve Disable the global exception handler, start Gajim under pdb.
  88. lovetox ok thanks i will try that
  89. lovetox Link Mauve
  90. lovetox so i started it with pdb
  91. lovetox but i suspect the error is in an imported python lib
  92. lovetox the python-axolotl lib
  93. lovetox how do i disable global exception handler
  94. Link Mauve lovetox, you can put a breakpoint in there if you want.
  95. Link Mauve Oh.
  96. lovetox na i cant, or i dont want to, has to be easier then setting break points in a lib
  97. lovetox i could do that with
  98. lovetox wit log messages also without pdb
  99. lovetox and where do i even start that lib is huge
  100. Link Mauve I don’t know, sorry.
  101. lovetox hm ok
  102. zak Hi. I was just wondering if it is possible to manually trigger a push message for someone who uses a not-push-capable server.
  103. lovetox wrong channel?
  104. zak me? why?
  105. lovetox is that not more of a topic for conversations?
  106. zak maybe, but does it matter? push notifications are a general feature
  107. zak And I am using Gajim right now and having the same problem ;)
  108. lovetox but its a mobile topic
  109. zak If I send a message to a Conversations contact from Gajim, shouldn't that trigger a push notification as well for this user?
  110. Link Mauve zak, TCP is fully push-based, what mobile developers call “push” is actually a workaround for them blocking TCP.
  111. zak ok, so my assumption is correct?
  112. Link Mauve So instead of having your XMPP server sending you a stanza on the TCP socket you have open with it, it will send it to the server of your application, which will send it to Google or Apple, which will send it on their own priviledged TCP connection with your phone.
  113. zak ok understood
  114. Link Mauve It’s some quite high-level bullshit everyone doing mobile stuff has to suffer because these companies want everything to go through them.
  115. Link Mauve So no, if your contact is using Gajim, sending them a stanza will work fine over TCP.
  116. lovetox so the answer would be, if your contact doesnt use a push server, you can do nothing about it
  117. zak No..no...
  118. zak My contact is using Conversations!
  119. zak *I* am using Gajim
  120. lovetox it is not a client matter
  121. zak But I want the Conversations client to wake up
  122. lovetox but if the conversations client, doesnt use a server that allows waking his device up
  123. lovetox you can nothing do about it
  124. zak therefore, one of this priviledged push messages need to be sent to the receiving client, or not?
  125. Link Mauve Yes, by that contact’s own server.
  126. lovetox the server sends the wake up signal, not your message
  127. lovetox you send a message to the server, the server decideds if this is worth waking the device up
  128. zak okay and only this server can do that?
  129. Link Mauve Yes, it’d be bad if anyone could wake a phone up, that would be a very nice way for an attacker to drain the battery. :)
  130. zak ok... yes I imagined that
  131. lovetox but if you use playstore version of conversations
  132. lovetox you dont have that problem anyway
  133. zak yes, I got it that the playstore version is required
  134. zak ...for push to work
  135. lovetox its not required
  136. lovetox you can do it also with the fdroid
  137. lovetox but you then have to have a push capable server
  138. zak but then I need the GCM-lib
  139. lovetox yourself
  140. Link Mauve zak, the most efficient way is for the OS to not kill the TCP connection, btw.
  141. zak the problem is, that the contact goes offline after some time, sometimes after 1 day, sometimes 3-4 days
  142. zak and he does not do anything, to enforce that
  143. Link Mauve That’s unrelated.
  144. zak Well never mind, the fact is that I need to get my contacts to switch to another server.
  145. Link Mauve Better ask their server administrator to improve their service.
  146. zak yeah... try contacting someone from jabber.ccc.de
  147. Link Mauve I recently did that after I became operator at JabberFR, our service is now very solid.
  148. Link Mauve zak, https://ccc.de/de/contact
  149. zak and I assume they are using a jabberd server, which doesn't even have a version supporting push
  150. zak hm... maybe I could try this, but it's more a general contact, not for the jabber server itself.
  151. zak I am curious, how does push exactly work, when Conversation was killed on the device?
  152. Link Mauve They can probably redirect you to the best person to contact.
  153. Link Mauve zak, you should ask all of that at conversations@conference.siacs.eu imo.
  154. zak maybe I do that, but later. I should do some other work here first
  155. lovetox zak if the app is not running
  156. lovetox there is no push
  157. lovetox push is only to wake up the device if its in kind of standby mode to safe battery, but the apps are running
  158. lovetox if a user decides that app should not run
  159. lovetox it would be weird if some server could start it and do something about it
  160. zak really? some time before I understood it that way
  161. zak I was asking on how it could be that a contact goes offline suddenly without a reason. the assumption was that it gets killed because of OOM.
  162. zak And then they said push would solve this
  163. lovetox i think we talk about a different kind of killed
  164. lovetox one were the user decides that a app should shut down
  165. zak that's definitly not it
  166. lovetox and the other where the OS decides, i will safe now battery and send the app into standby
  167. lovetox for the first no server can do anything about it
  168. lovetox for the second you need push to wake the app up
  169. zak ok, than I got it wrong
  170. lovetox safing battery means for the OS
  171. lovetox i dont let the app communitcate with anything
  172. lovetox and in this state
  173. lovetox only the PUSH server is allowed to send messages
  174. lovetox no one else
  175. lovetox or to say it in another way, the app only communicates with the push server anymore
  176. lovetox every other traffic is blocked
  177. lovetox thats how it safes battery
  178. zak ...in standby state?
  179. lovetox yes
  180. zak ok, thanks for the clarification
  181. lovetox standby state does mean, blocking all internet
  182. lovetox cause that uses processor power
  183. lovetox except for the once single connection to the push server
  184. lovetox and the push server then is really restrictive what it sends
  185. lovetox for example if you are typing, the push server will not sent that typing notification to a standby app
  186. lovetox cause the user is not looking at it, so he doesnt need the info that you are typing
  187. zak and an app cannot work around that? for example by disabling the standby state somehow?
  188. lovetox now thats a question you should ask in the conversations channel :)
  189. zak yeah....sorry ;)
  190. lovetox cause i dont own a smartphone:D
  191. lovetox so im not that deep into it
  192. zak sent a message to ccc.de, now lets wait and hope :)
  193. zak I already received an answer from ccc.de :)
  194. zak Unfortunately they use ejabberd and that doesn't seem to support push
  195. linus zak: https://www.process-one.net/en/ejabberd/protocols/ suggests that ejabberd does allow push service integration.
  196. zak Interesting. I did not find this myself yet.
  197. zak I was searching the git repo for push
  198. linus It does say something about an external module for it
  199. zak This issue is still open: https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/507
  200. linus Issue starts with... Noticed that ejabberd (at least the commercial edition) supports Android and Apple push notifications.
  201. zak Now where can I find this "Contribution module"...
  202. linus That is something I don't know, sorry :)
  203. cippaciong zak: https://github.com/royneary/mod_push
  204. cippaciong https://blog.process-one.net/my-gsoc-2015-project-push-for-xmpp/
  205. zak I found that but there seems to be the an app server integrated as well in this more comprehensive patch
  206. cippaciong Maybe you'll need also the "XMPP on mobile devices" section of the tutorials page https://docs.ejabberd.im/tutorials/
  207. zak I found that but there seems to be an app server integrated as well in this more comprehensive patch
  208. cippaciong Do you mean Oshiya?
  209. Holger Oshiya is yet another thing :-)
  210. Holger royneary/mod_push includes both an XMPP server and an app server indeed.
  211. cippaciong Ah..
  212. Holger Oshiya is an unrelated component that also offers an app server.
  213. Holger Well it was written by the same student as part of the same GSoC project last year. But otherwise unrelated :-)
  214. Holger And of course, all this is off-topic in here indeed.
  215. Holger There's <ejabberd@conference.jabber.ru>.
  216. Holger "includes both an XMPP server and an app server" -- I meant "both the XMPP server part and the app server part of XEP-0357", of course.
  217. zak Now I do have to ask: Why is it not so good to integrate the app server part directly with the XMPP server?
  218. Holger The app server must be operated by the app vendor/developer.
  219. linus Because that means the app will only work with the right XMPP servers
  220. Holger At least with Google and Apple. They will only give the app vendor the credentials necessary to generate push notifications.
  221. Holger So the idea of XEP-0357 is to split things up to make it possible for arbitrary XMPP server to generate notifications without interfacing with Apple/Google/whatever directly.
  222. zak I see. This whole push hassle is really annoying.
  223. Holger Yes.
  224. linus Tell Google and Apple
  225. zak Well Android is OSS, why cannot anybody fork it and make something better
  226. linus The key part of android for your average user is Google Play Services
  227. linus Which is far from being OSS
  228. zak (This was more or less a rhetorical question)
  229. linus And it's a lot of work :)
  230. Holger I purged my Gajim-GTK2 data and now the GTK3 branch seems to work much better here as well.
  231. linus Aaah
  232. linus That might be worth documenting.
  233. linus Somewhere.
  234. Holger Well, no idea how many users will be bitten by that.
  235. Holger-3 Soundcheck! One two three.
  236. linus Whoa