Gajim - 2016-08-14


  1. arune lovetox, tmolitor, we should probably change connection_types to TLS as default
  2. lovetox it is
  3. lovetox thats only the possible connection types for a particular server
  4. lovetox i think this is generated automatically
  5. lovetox for example on one server i have "tls ssl plain"
  6. arune lovetox: isn't "tls plain" currently default?
  7. lovetox thats the possible connection types
  8. arune Ah, "tls ssl plain" is default
  9. lovetox not the one acutally chosen
  10. lovetox to connect
  11. lovetox of course it is tls chosen over plain
  12. lovetox but if tls does not work for some reason
  13. lovetox the next connection type is chosen
  14. lovetox in this case plain
  15. lovetox and a warning is shown
  16. arune If that is generated, HOW is it generated?
  17. lovetox good question i dont know
  18. lovetox would have to look in the code
  19. lovetox probably trial and error
  20. lovetox nah
  21. lovetox i dont really know :)
  22. arune It should not generate ssl or plain
  23. zak Good morning everyone. Can anybody tell me: Does OMEMO on Gajim recognize, if a device is on- or offline?
  24. zak I am just wondering: My contact did use Conversations in the past and published an OMEMO key. But I suspect he is only online with Pidgin at the moment.
  25. zak So when I activate OMEMO on Gajim and send the message encrypted with the Conversations-device-key, and he does not run Conversations at the moment, the message is only received, if he starts Conversations again some time in the future. Am I correct?
  26. Link Mauve arune, lovetox, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0368.html says you should consider legacy SSL and STARTTLS at the same priority if both records exist, so there is no reason for this configuration option to even exist.
  27. Link Mauve zak, I’ve never used OMEMO, but I think you are correct.
  28. zak Well if this true, this is very intransparent. The user should not have to worry which device and/or program a contact is using.
  29. Link Mauve Indeed, that’s why OMEMO shouldn’t be enabled by default at the moment, and its downsides being clearly exposed to the user before they opt to use it.
  30. lovetox this problem exists with every encryption
  31. lovetox the programm can not know which device your contact is using
  32. lovetox what if he is online with both?
  33. lovetox should the message be unencrypted or encrypted?
  34. zak Well isn't it possible to detect if an OMEMO device is online or offline?
  35. lovetox yes but that still leaves the case, what if both are online?
  36. zak I agree the complete behavior is not as easy, but at least if the only OMEMO devices are offline, sending a message would not make any sense
  37. lovetox why?
  38. lovetox what if you want to send an encrypted message to an offline device
  39. lovetox ...
  40. zak The ideal case would be if somewhere is visible, which devices are online and which use omemo encryption
  41. zak okay, although this usecase seems not common I agree with you
  42. zak Then as I said, somewhere should be visible, which devices are known and if/which encryption they use
  43. lovetox to my knowledge gajim shows you which device is online
  44. zak I can see the resource, yes
  45. zak but that isn't meaningful in this case
  46. lovetox so you know what device your contact is online
  47. lovetox piding doesnt support omemo
  48. lovetox so dont write encrypted
  49. Link Mauve lovetox, not exactly, other encryption mechanisms like OpenPGP have a mandatory unencrypted body saying “this message is encrypted” or something similar, OTR will also let the recipient see some garbage, only OMEMO made the very bad choice to not inform other clients of the recipient that they just received an encrypted message.
  50. Link Mauve It should imo be fixed.
  51. lovetox why conversation does that
  52. lovetox ?
  53. zak You misunderstand me: *I* do know, how to handle this. I am just referring to the average user.
  54. Link Mauve Gajim does too.
  55. lovetox no i mean it sends you a message "there was an encrypted message"
  56. Link Mauve I don’t know why, maybe to make the size of a single message slightly lower?
  57. Link Mauve lovetox, it does with OMEMO?
  58. lovetox yes
  59. lovetox its not in the xep but input mice integrated this
  60. Link Mauve Ah, then the bug is only with Conversations, or?
  61. lovetox i think we misunderstanding each other
  62. lovetox if you send with conversations a encrypted message to an device that doesnt support it, you will see: someone wrote an encrypted message, download omemo etc
  63. lovetox would that solve your problem zak?
  64. lovetox generelly this are problems not easy to be solved, thats exactly why whatsapp,signal etc they dont do cleints that dont exactly support everything they do
  65. lovetox with xmpp you will always have such problems
  66. zak Well as I said, I personally do not have a "problem", I know about the technical background. I am just thinking about possible friends I might recommend Gajim/Conversations some day and this would be a problem for them.
  67. zak A message like this would be a good start, yes
  68. lovetox gajim/conversations work good
  69. lovetox its only people who use pidgin they have a problem
  70. lovetox or not?
  71. lovetox why even use pidgin
  72. lovetox it has no carbons, no MAM
  73. zak I know... but they have ICQ, Yahoo, whatever other contacts.
  74. lovetox puh ok
  75. lovetox icq contacts lol
  76. lovetox :D
  77. Link Mauve Yahoo doesn’t work anymore in Pidgin, fyi.
  78. Link Mauve They recently changed their protocol.
  79. lovetox ok i will ask inputmice about that message and how he implemented it
  80. lovetox then i will add this to the next update
  81. zak Maybe but it's a fact, that many people use pidgin because of other contacts who use other protocols. I am not happy with it either and some friends are as well, but try to tell several of those ICQ contacts that they have to use another program now.
  82. zak They again would have to inform *their* contacts to do the same...
  83. zak It's just too much hassle :-(
  84. lovetox yeah, but pidgin is ancient and not maintained since years
  85. lovetox at some point other programms will stop to support theire usecase
  86. zak Recently someone here told me they are working rather actively on gtk3 support
  87. lovetox thats just the UI
  88. lovetox the problem with pidgin is not UI
  89. lovetox its that the features are not supported that modern clients support now
  90. zak Then why does nobody work at those features there?
  91. lovetox and i believe it if i see it :)
  92. lovetox why should someone? why dont you do it?
  93. lovetox its opensource
  94. lovetox nobody gets paid
  95. cuc :)
  96. lovetox i just work on the omemo plugin cause im bored with my life and have nothing else to do
  97. lovetox :D
  98. zak :-( Yes I know, and I am glad you do this.
  99. zak Am I the only one having upgrade/change-resistant contacts?
  100. lovetox i have 2 contacts that even use xmpp
  101. lovetox the rest just uses whatsapp
  102. lovetox :D
  103. zak Right now I am thinking about how I can persuade many of my xmpp-contacts to switch from jabber.ccc.de to another better server.
  104. zak Yes... then you know what I mean
  105. zak Unfortunately change happens so often and users are constantly switching from one deprecated/abandoned system/program/protocol to the next.
  106. lovetox xmpp is also not in a glorious state
  107. lovetox for windows there are not many clients
  108. lovetox that support the modern features
  109. zak yes... I am waiting until someone there starts breaking everything and starting all over again
  110. zak on FOSDEM there was someone proposing exactly this
  111. lovetox and if they see the message
  112. lovetox they know to look on their phone
  113. zak well at least they know that someone wanted to say something to them
  114. zak the message should probably be "OMEMO encrypted message received. OMEMO not supported on client."
  115. zak or something like that
  116. lovetox yes :) i will work on that seems not so hard
  117. zak You are the best! Thank you.
  118. zak At least *one* desktop client with OMEMO support
  119. lovetox but you know, if he stays online for example with pidgin and his mobile and wants to chat encrypted via his mobile with you
  120. lovetox for every message you send, he will receive in pidigin the "not supported" messager
  121. zak Hmm... let me think about that
  122. lovetox like the message will be added to every omemo message, as long as he is online with pidgin
  123. lovetox normally you dont send many omemo messages if he is online with pidign
  124. lovetox but if for some reason you do
  125. lovetox he will get many "not supported" messages
  126. zak I see, on the one hand I would say... well if he doesn't want to switch his messenger... his problem ;)
  127. lovetox kk :)
  128. lovetox i mean conversations does this already
  129. zak Conversations sends such a message?
  130. lovetox yes
  131. lovetox it should, try it
  132. zak well then I think it is okay then. the same behavior for every client
  133. lovetox normally pidgin could inform you as well that there is a message it cant read :D
  134. zak what do you mean?
  135. lovetox pidgin does receive these encrypted messages
  136. lovetox but they drop it silently
  137. lovetox cause they cant do nothing with it
  138. zak okay and as fallback, the "not supported" message is sent as well?
  139. lovetox its not the fallback cause pidgin doesnt inform you about droped messages
  140. lovetox thats why we *have* to do this
  141. lovetox but it seems inefficient
  142. lovetox but there is no way around it, cause i dont think pidign will implement this message :)
  143. zak I don't know how this exactly works, maybe it can be send something like <message><omemo>NGOEHINHEI(encrpyted)</omemo><unencrypted>unsupported</unencrypted></message>
  144. lovetox yeah it will work something like that
  145. lovetox there is an encrypted body
  146. lovetox and a normal body
  147. lovetox clients that can decrypt will ignore the normal body
  148. lovetox clients that cant decrypt will ignore the encrypted body
  149. zak okay, and this inefficient?
  150. zak is
  151. lovetox pidigin could just give the user a message, if it sees a encrypted body it cant do nothing with
  152. lovetox it even could tell that is omemo, cause the namespace of the encrypted tag is omemo
  153. lovetox intead of us adding the not supported message to each message
  154. zak But nobody of the pidgin devs cares :-P
  155. lovetox :D
  156. lovetox ok have to go, see you later
  157. zak I think such a message "Unsupported, please use a better client or vote here [ticket#16801]" would be good
  158. zak bye!
  159. erik experiences Marzanna 's problem about insecure connections too, after waking up the laptop and moving from one wifi zone to another while the laptop was asleep
  160. Link Mauve lovetox, zak, today I wrote a XEP fixing your issue, I just sent it to the editor.
  161. mathieui you didn’t send it to standards@ though
  162. Link Mauve I should have?
  163. Link Mauve AFAIK that’s the responsibility of the editor.
  164. mathieui ah, ok
  165. arune erik: I'm guessing I also had that before changing to tls only. When there were some network issues gajim first tried tls and failed so then it tried ssl and failed, then moving on to plain which failed then gajim got stuck there
  166. erik Ok. So I should restrict it to tls only?
  167. erik That works for me. My server has a static cert configured.
  168. erik so no problems there
  169. erik Thanks for the advice!
  170. lovetox Link Mauve
  171. lovetox can we read it :D
  172. lovetox ?
  173. mathieui lovetox, https://linkmauve.fr/attic/xep-xxxx.html
  174. Anders Hi! I just installed Gajim on Windows, but my language was localized instead of English (like Windows is). So I read the FAQ and set it to en_GB, but I still get some things en non-english.
  175. lovetox what things
  176. lovetox which os?
  177. Anders Windows 10
  178. Anders For example when I right-click my account to set status. the different options show in Swedish
  179. lovetox what if you go to the preference menu
  180. lovetox is the text swedish?
  181. Anders many submenus seem in fact to still be in swedish. If I go to "Actions->Advanced" I get Historikhanterare instead of Historymanager or some such
  182. Anders Preferences seems to be in english
  183. Anders not everything in the Status tab. In status messages I have Swedish text
  184. lovetox ok interesting, i will look at this, but for you the easiest and fastest way would be to just rename the folder with the swedish locals
  185. lovetox its under Gajim\po
  186. lovetox there search your local code
  187. lovetox and rename the folder to something else
  188. lovetox restart
  189. lovetox gajim
  190. Anders would that be C:\Program Files (x86)\Gajim\bin\gtk\share\locale\sv\LC_MESSAGES ?
  191. lovetox yes
  192. Anders In advanced configuration editor I still get swedish for Bool, True, False... :)
  193. Anders Ill restart to see what happens
  194. lovetox no that is not enough i think, you need to find Gajim\po
  195. lovetox folder
  196. lovetox and rename the local there aswell
  197. Anders :) Now its in English again. Great! (yes, I did the gajim\po folder
  198. Anders Except, some Swedish is still there :D
  199. lovetox what=
  200. lovetox ?
  201. Anders The status messages are still in swedish in Preferences->Status tab
  202. Anders Could they have been set to Swedish during installation and wont change even when I change the locale (or even remove the po files)
  203. lovetox yes i think so
  204. lovetox C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\Gajim
  205. lovetox there is a Config file
  206. lovetox open it with the editor
  207. lovetox or delete it maybe and reinstall
  208. lovetox if you reinstall this folder is not beeing deleted normally
  209. lovetox before you start the first time rename the po folders
  210. lovetox or just edit the config file
  211. Anders I think its easier to remove and reinstall, There are many lines like "statusmsg.Arbetar.message = Jag arbetar." in the config.
  212. lovetox yeah, but remove also the whole app folder
  213. lovetox AppData
  214. lovetox ah sorry
  215. lovetox of course only the Gajim folder
  216. lovetox in your AppData folder
  217. lovetox dont remove the AppData lol :D
  218. lovetox before you first start rename po files
  219. Anders Btw, I seem to crash easilly. Gajim freezes when I do some things, for example I tried to send you a screenshot with httpupload plogin and it just froze.
  220. Anders Yea, the whole appdata could be fun to remove ;)
  221. lovetox thats interesting, this could be a bug with the plugin
  222. lovetox i would want to look at it if you can reproduce it
  223. Anders sure. Tried several time and I got stuff like this in the log "2016-08-14 23:11:50 (E) gajim.c.ged: Error while running an even handler: <bound method HttpuploadPlugin.handle_agent_info_received of <httpupload.httpupload.HttpuploadPlugin object at 0x03698FD0>>"
  224. lovetox yeah there has to be more in another file
  225. lovetox it should be in your Gajim Folder
  226. lovetox gajim.exe txt
  227. lovetox gajim.exe.log
  228. lovetox thats what it is called
  229. Anders yep :)
  230. lovetox if you are new to gajim another thing for chatrooms, if you click below on the settings symbol, there you can activate that chatrooms are minimized if you close the window
  231. lovetox otherwise you would always leave the chatroom
  232. lovetox ok anders have to go to bed
  233. lovetox maybe post it in pastebin
  234. lovetox and post the link here
  235. lovetox i will see it tomorrow
  236. lovetox and have a look at it
  237. lovetox gn8
  238. Anders OK Thanks!
  239. Anders lovetox, gajim.exe.log http://pastebin.com/Wh2rVp9q
  240. Anders lovetox, gajim.log http://pastebin.com/1rPj7GZQ