Gajim - 2016-08-05


  1. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Ticket #8359 (Modern dev environment) updated I agree with the above issue filer's critique. I think it would strongly benefit the gajim project to start a discussion on whether and how to address the above-listed unattractive properties of the project. https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8359#comment:1
  2. tmolitor Link Mauve, sorry, I was ill for the last youple of days...I'll commit your fix as soon as possible :)
  3. Link Mauve No problem, it’s not like it will reach most users any time soon anyway.
  4. tmolitor your changes are now committed to the default and the 0.16 branch of gajim :)
  5. Link Mauve Great, it’ll fix temporary’s issue.
  6. tmolitor good :)
  7. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [16078:b1567f3877c9]: Make the port optional in XEP-0065 section 9.2 says … Make the port optional in XEP-0065 section 9.2 says “The "port" attribute s[…] https://trac.gajim.org/changeset/b1567f3877c961692804d2089abaff75a388bfdb • Changeset [16079:06207bfa2cd8]: Make the port optional in XEP-0065 section 9.2 says … Make the port optional in XEP-0065 section 9.2 says “The "port" attribute s[…] https://trac.gajim.org/changeset/06207bfa2cd88caf2faa5b698f7a0e8a815980ce
  8. lovetox why Link Mauve, for linux users, using gajim nightly is fairly standard i think ?
  9. Link Mauve lovetox, this bug affects anyone seeing a proxy using the default port, no matter their OS.
  10. lovetox yeah, i mean with the commit now, it will reach most linux users
  11. lovetox because you said it will reach no users
  12. Link Mauve I said “most users”, and I highly doubt anything more than a very tiny portion of them are using nightlies.
  13. Link Mauve Just yesterday I found a guy running 0.15.4 because his distribution didn’t have any better.
  14. Holger Indeed, I think you easily over-estimate the fraction of users running current code ...
  15. Link Mauve Gajim has no auto-updater or user-nagging code, so people are very likely to stay on whatever ancient version they first installed.
  16. lovetox hm i thought maybe linux useres are more aware
  17. lovetox that theire distris often dont run the most current version
  18. Link Mauve Why would they care?
  19. lovetox linux is still a nerd system for me, but maybe its not anymore
  20. Link Mauve I’d expect users who care to use a proper distribution, but most users are fine with very obsolete software that are bug-ridden and full of vulnerabilities.
  21. kalkin Last week I had some time who was unhappy that OMEMO is provided only for cutting edge Gajim 0.16. The person was stuck on 0.15 on Linux Mint
  22. kalkin Last week I had some one who was unhappy that OMEMO is provided only for cutting edge Gajim 0.16. The person was stuck on 0.15 on Linux Mint
  23. kalkin I mean typical Linux Mint, the WinME of all Linux distributions, but people always tend to use crap because they are stupid marketing/ads following lemmings
  24. lovetox winME of linux haha :D
  25. Link Mauve kalkin, you haven’t seen Debian or CentOS users.
  26. Link Mauve Those are the worst.
  27. kalkin Link Mauve: Dunno about Debian, but at least in CentOS is Gajim not in the main repos. Stuff in the main repos is getting stability updates
  28. Link Mauve I had to suffer CentOS 5 for pretty much all of my uni years, half of the programs running on that shit didn’t handle Unicode. :@
  29. kalkin Actually I kind of like CentOS for office work and some of my non nerd relative and friends are using it, as an office pc and thus is fine
  30. kalkin Link Mauve: ahh I feel the pain :)
  31. linus I think Debian might be a bit too generous with its inclusion into the "stable" distribution
  32. linus But I love my Debian testing
  33. Link Mauve The current maintainer of Gajim in Debian is MIA, fyi.
  34. tmolitor Me too...I'm using Debian testing since about 8 years now and I dont regret...
  35. linus I'll be honest, I've moved to pidgin on my desktop :/ although it doesn't support MAM or bookmarks or Carbons, but I found gajim (even from hg) to be a bit confusing especially with hangs that I didn't manage to debug
  36. linus Although Pidgin's development seems to be a bit of a disaster, at least in terms of accepting/reviewing contributions
  37. linus Because the code for all those features is already there AFAIK but the people responsible haven't reviewed and merged it... Even though it's been floating around for years
  38. linus I don't get it
  39. linus I should probably move back to gajim
  40. Link Mauve Gajim’s main issue imo is that Python is a dynamic language, so there are *many* bugs that aren’t found until users experience them.
  41. kalkin Gajim could at least start using pylint :)
  42. Link Mauve I gave Asterix a list of bugs steming from using globals that didn’t exist, but I don’t think he commited any fix yet.
  43. Link Mauve If anyone else wants to give a try, it should be fairly easy: https://linkmauve.fr/files/gajim_issues.txt
  44. Link Mauve (This is the default branch, I can do the same on the python2 one.)
  45. lovetox thanks Link Mauve, i will look into it
  46. lovetox the problem of gajim is, that its to hard for people at the moment to contribute
  47. lovetox but i hope we can do somthing about that with asterix
  48. Link Mauve Oh?
  49. linus I also found the code quite opaque (what I saw of it at least)
  50. linus In terms of spacing particularly
  51. linus I might be remembering wrong though
  52. Link Mauve I found it pretty simple, I make a commit, push it to some public server, and ask someone to merge it.
  53. Link Mauve Asterix also has no issue giving push access to people, but I’d rather have people review my patches first.
  54. Link Mauve I don’t consider myself good enough to have push rights.
  55. lovetox has nothing to do with good.
  56. lovetox gajim runs on multiple systems with different enviroments
  57. lovetox you normally dont have the capability to test everything thorough
  58. lovetox so its only good sense to push something into a dev branch
  59. lovetox people can test it and merge it to a main branch
  60. lovetox on github you can do this with pullrequest
  61. lovetox on hg you need another branch for this
  62. lovetox its not hard to use hg, i agree
  63. lovetox but not everybody can set up some hg repo public anywhere
  64. Link Mauve lovetox, I think before thinking about CI, it would make sense to have more thorough tests.
  65. linus Are there unit tests also?
  66. lovetox and we dont have a dev branch
  67. Link Mauve lovetox, bitbucket is free and simple to use.
  68. linus lovetox: is bitbucket not easy emogh?
  69. linus Enough
  70. lovetox its not free for more than 5 users
  71. Link Mauve Also any web hosting that allows you to put an entire directory is fine for use with hg.
  72. lovetox at least thats what i read last time
  73. Link Mauve lovetox, why would you need more than one user? ^^
  74. linus ^
  75. lovetox ah sorry you mean for your own public repo
  76. lovetox i agree
  77. lovetox i thought you meant gajim should go to bitbucket
  78. linus Also, surely mercurial can format patches like git does?
  79. Link Mauve linus, yup.
  80. linus So you don't even need to have a public repo
  81. lovetox maybe there are to few reviewers than
  82. Link Mauve Yeah, current way to send patches is to write an email to the dev@ mailing list.
  83. lovetox whol acutally commit the contributions
  84. Link Mauve lovetox, exactly.
  85. Link Mauve That’s not a problem you’ll fix with technical means.
  86. lovetox but then you still have the problem
  87. lovetox that people have to find you to contribute
  88. lovetox trac is like an total downer
  89. lovetox on the plugins trac you cant even register
  90. Link Mauve Yeah, that’s an issue, I started a trac plugin to use XEP-0070 a few months ago, but then went for some other solution.
  91. Link Mauve I plan on using it but with an auth daemon in the middle.
  92. Link Mauve And someone happened to publish one very recently: https://git.kingpenguin.tk/chteufleur/HTTPAuthentificationOverXMPP
  93. lovetox can you give me a example for something this is used
  94. lovetox for
  95. Link Mauve Instead of having to create an account, receive a confirmation email, click the link, then login with an username/password everytime you want to post something, you enter your JID and then you can accept or deny the authentication request from your client.
  96. Link Mauve One of the big benefits is when you are on an untrusted computer and you have your XMPP client running on your phone for example, you don’t have to leak the password to the potential attacker.
  97. Link Mauve But of course, they can still do whatever they want while you stay logged, but no technical solution will prevent that.
  98. lovetox ok i get it, but wouldnt that be way more useful on a mobile client than desktop?
  99. Link Mauve On both really, I wouldn’t want to have to buy a mobile phone just to be able to login on Gajim’s Trac.
  100. Link Mauve Especially when I’m at home on my personal computer.
  101. lovetox ah now i get it even more
  102. lovetox so you basically dont need passwords any more
  103. Link Mauve Yes.
  104. kalkin Trac is pure crap (at least the Gajim setup) which I refuse to use, because my time is too valuable, but I'm not sure if Gajim would get more developers only if it went to Github/Bitbucket/Gitlab. If you are a capable person you will fix your issue and find a way to send the patch. Worst case by just joining here and pinging a5sterix. Every one else is just an annoying whining user who just demands changes without giving something back. I admit that there is a demand for an easier bug reporting tool, but there is no sense in a better bug reporting workflow, if a5terix would be just overwhelmed.
  105. kalkin whtf
  106. Link Mauve kalkin, right.
  107. kalkin Trac is pure crap (at least the Gajim setup) which I refuse to use, because my time is too valuable, but I'm not sure if Gajim would get more developers only if it went to Github/Bitbucket/Gitlab. If you are a capable person you will fix your issue and find a way to send the patch. Worst case by just joining here and pinging a5sterix. Every one else is just an annoying whining user who just demands changes without giving something back. I admit that there is a demand for an easier bug reporting tool, but there is no sense in a better bug reporting workflow, if a5terix would be just overwhelmed.
  108. kalkin foo\
  109. Link Mauve kalkin, didn’t you say exactly the same thing twice?
  110. lovetox yeah i agree
  111. kalkin Link Mauve: yes but it postet it as pastbin url
  112. lovetox yes
  113. lovetox why is that?
  114. Link Mauve Yeah, because your message was longer than the mod_pastebin limit.
  115. lovetox ah
  116. kalkin Hmm, may be it should count \v (vertical space) instead of chars
  117. Link Mauve It has both a per-line limit and a number of lines limit.
  118. Link Mauve Not sure how Asterix configured it.
  119. Link Mauve Defaults are here: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_pastebin.html
  120. kalkin I would suggest to a5terix to move to GNU Savannah so he doesn't need to manage his infrastructure himself, but Savannah isn't better than Trac.
  121. kalkin Is there some non profit organization who do infrastructure for projects who use free software and can be counted on?
  122. Link Mauve But why, it’s fine for him to manage the infrastructure.
  123. Link Mauve I do the same for all of my projects.
  124. Link Mauve Btw, for people understanding French or those using a translator, there was a nice article about that feature recently: https://linuxfr.org/news/authentifiez-vous-sans-mot-de-passe-grace-a-xmpp
  125. SouL Poezio (en cours) :D
  126. lovetox and is there a particular problem with this?
  127. lovetox cause from the xep it look fairly easy to implement as a plugin in gajim
  128. SouL This sounds really interesting
  129. lovetox is there a server with that i could test such plugin against?
  130. Link Mauve lovetox, it already is implemented in Gajim.
  131. Link Mauve And yes, you can just use the demo one listed at https://git.kingpenguin.tk/chteufleur/HTTPAuthentificationOverXMPP
  132. lovetox and where to test it?
  133. Link Mauve On the demo there.
  134. Link Mauve Just enter your JID there, and it should be fine.
  135. kalkin Link Mauve: well the infrastructure management takes time, and it's not like trac is working flawlessly. I get the feeling it steals his already limited time, but may be I'm wrong…
  136. kalkin Link Mauve: What do you use as an alternative to github? (Source code viewing, PR handling and issue/questions tracking)
  137. Link Mauve hgweb, email/XMPP.
  138. kalkin Link Mauve: Do you use a kernel.org inspired patch/mail workflow?
  139. kalkin Or how do you manage contributions?
  140. Link Mauve Most of my projects have a single maintainer, so it’s easy.
  141. kalkin Link Mauve: I'm not sure if gajim-omemo wouldn't have such an easy way to add changes, if some one like lovetox would emerge
  142. kalkin Link Mauve: I'm not sure if gajim-omemo wouldn't have such an easy way to add changes, if some one like lovetox would emerge
  143. kalkin I think writing an email is to a complete stranger is a psychological barrier, especially if you take your time to write a proper email, there is always a possibility that you just wasted your time. While doing it publicly at something like trac or github lowers this barrier
  144. kalkin (because everyone can see what a cool, nice gall you are)
  145. kalkin Gajim-OMEMO would probably be dead if not lovetox wouldn't have volunteered to do more development
  146. Link Mauve kalkin, nope, I generally don’t receive many contributions so I just handle them like normal email.
  147. Link Mauve Btw, am I the only one who have a lot of lag talking on this room?
  148. Link Mauve kalkin, I don’t see what’s hard in cloning a repository, changing some stuff, and sending me a patch. :/
  149. Link Mauve kalkin, doing it publicly will send an email to the maintainer as well, I don’t see how that is different, but then I’m indeed not well-versed in that psychological thing. ^^'
  150. Link Mauve I don’t see my answers yet, so you are probably not getting them either.
  151. kalkin Link Mauve: I think it really depends on the person, how experienced he is in the "free software trade" and how knowledgable the person thinks he is. Some people just don't dare to disturb the half god who is doing crypto software, even if the maintainer himself actually isn't a crypto guru.
  152. kalkin Homo sapiens and his behavior in groups is complicated :)
  153. kalkin Yea there is a lag for me too, but only few seconds
  154. kalkin around ~5 seconds