Gajim - 2016-02-29

  1. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim Plugins • Ticket #122 (Autocompression and autoreduction) created If user want to send image, he should reduce size and weight of image manually. Think it would be wonderful to autocompress and autoreduce image before sending.
  2. ganatronic I'm chatting with a friend and getting a yellow triangle after everything I type. "This icon indicates that this message has not yet been received by the remote end. If this icon stays for a long time, it's likely the message was lost." however, he's receiving the messages
  3. Asterix ganatronic: whixh Gajim version?
  4. ganatronic we're both using his own server, with a self-signed certificate. not sure if that has anything to do with it
  5. Asterix could you open XML console and whot what happens when you send him a message?
  6. ganatronic version 0.15.4
  7. Asterix wow
  8. Asterix 0.15.4?
  9. ganatronic uh
  10. Asterix why that old?
  11. ganatronic good question
  12. ganatronic no clue. updating... haha
  13. Asterix you should upgrade to 0.16.5
  14. ganatronic k
  15. ganatronic I think this is the one that was in the repo I was using
  16. ganatronic Asterix, I installed 0.6.15 and am still getting that error (but now it's a red X instead of a yellow triangle!) when I chat with my friend.
  17. Asterix he has the same version? he also updated to 0.16.5?
  18. Asterix ganatronic: ^
  19. ganatronic Asterix, no he uses Profanity.
  20. ganatronic And he's getting the messages, so this isn't a big deal or anything. It just seems strange
  21. Asterix ha. Then could you open XML console and show me what is printed when you send a message?
  22. Asterix (you can hide JID and message in it)
  23. Asterix ganatronic: what comes to my mind: You contact's client announce it supports a feature, but it doesn't, or maybe not correctly? I'll see that in the XML you'll show me
  24. ganatronic Asterix, this is my message: <!-- Out Mon 29 Feb 2016 12:10:21 PM PST --> <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="zzzz@zzzz/profanity" type="chat" id="zzzz"> <body>test</body> <active xmlns="" /> <request xmlns="urn:xmpp:receipts" /> <thread>zzzz</thread> </message>
  25. Asterix and no reply to that?
  26. ganatronic and then the error shows up a few seconds later
  27. ganatronic pasting...
  28. ganatronic not sure if I need to hide the <photo>
  29. Asterix yes
  30. ganatronic <!-- In Mon 29 Feb 2016 12:10:31 PM PST --> <presence to='ganatronic@zzzz/Gajim' from='' id='zzzz' xml:lang='ru'> <x xmlns='vcard-temp:x:update'> <photo>zzzz</photo> </x> <c ver='zzzz' hash='sha-1' node='' xmlns=''/> <x xmlns=''> <item affiliation='none' role='participant'/> </x> </presence>
  31. ganatronic tell me if I should unhide anything there
  32. Asterix ok thanks
  33. Asterix could you try to send that in the XML input and show me the result: <iq id="a" to="zzzz@zzzz/profanity" type="get"> <query xmlns="" /> </iq>
  34. Asterix with the correct jid of course
  35. ganatronic yes, one moment
  36. ganatronic <!-- In Mon 29 Feb 2016 12:21:23 PM PST --> <iq id='zzz' type='result' to='ganatronic@zzz/Gajim' from='zzz@zzz/profanity'> <query xmlns=''> <identity type='console' name='Profanity 0.4.7' category='client'/> <feature var=''/> <feature var=''/> <feature var=''/> <feature var=''/> <feature var=''/> <feature var='jabber:x:conference'/> <feature var='jabber:iq:version'/> <feature var='urn:xmpp:ping'/> <feature var='urn:xmpp:receipts'/> </query> </iq>
  37. ganatronic Asterix, I pasted it.
  38. Asterix ok so indeed its client announce it supports <feature var='urn:xmpp:receipts'/>, but when you request it, it doesn't reply
  39. Asterix so the bug is in its client
  40. Asterix so he announce he can reply you when he received the message, and when you send a message with the tag "tell me when you get it" it doesn't reply ... so Gajim thinks it indeed didn't received it
  41. ganatronic ah interesting
  42. ganatronic I hadn't chatted with him on xmpp in about a month. prior to this we were using a different server, and I wasn't getting the error. so I figured the issue was related to this new server setup. I don't know if he updated his client during that month
  43. Asterix hmm there is no reason the server has something to do with that
  44. ganatronic k
  45. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Changeset [15960:9f7c62b5dbda]: Make last message correction wo[] • Changeset [15961:85fc8e1684ff]: rename msg_id to msg_log_id whe[] • Changeset [15962:5c6c77423355]: pending events are now in objec[] • Ticket #8220 (Last […] • Ticket #8220 (Last […] • Changeset [15963:ad4236d5a427]: handle message correction corre[]
  46. tmolitor asterix: I'm currently starting to add a delayed ag to all outgoing messages which are no that something you would considder to merge?
  47. tmolitor asterix: well, see my mail I sent you a few days ago :)
  48. tmolitor asterix: we could show the red cross for messages we receive an error stanza telling us the message wasn't delivered correctly and omit the cross mark for messages not yet acknowledged via xep-0184 completely....this would solve ganatronic‎'s issue and would be more intuitive than the current behaviour...
  49. Link Mauve tmolitor, in poezio by default we have a green check when a message has been ack’d, and a red cross when it has been nack’d by an error.
  50. Link Mauve Leaving the case with no sign as the ambiguous one it is.
  51. Asterix tmolitor: yes I need to reply to your mail. why is it usefull to att a delay tag to all outgoing message?
  52. tmolitor Link Mauve, exactly what I wanted to propose for gajim, too :)
  53. Asterix for XEP184, then this means XEP is useless ... Can we fight brocken clients?
  54. Asterix we can already have the green check on acked messages
  55. Asterix but in the XEP no reply means not delivered, no?
  56. tmolitor asterix: well, sometimes the network connctivity is slow or smacks delays the delivery of a message and I would considder it useful to know the exact time when a message was sent...
  57. Link Mauve Asterix, it means you can’t know, really.
  58. tmolitor asterix: yes, a green check for messages that got acked, but no sign for messages that are not (yet) acked...currently gajim displays this red cross after 3 seconds...
  59. Link Mauve The recipient could be on some very bad network, or one-way network, and have received your message with no way to ack it.
  60. tmolitor and yes, Link Mauve is reply means you can't could even be delivered later on by means of mam...
  61. Asterix tmolitor: the question is, do we want to show the send time or received time?
  62. Link Mauve If you receive an error though, you can be sure the recipient didn’t receive it.
  63. Asterix in a network in which you can receive a normal stanza and not send a small one? then the reply will be sent when network comes back
  64. tmolitor asterix: yes...good question ;) for usual conversations I would vote for the send time, because this is more accurate/natural for the conversation flow...
  65. Asterix it's like emails ... I hate that it shows send time. Because if the machine doesn't have the correct time / date it's horrible
  66. tmolitor asterix: well, see my mam case I used as an example...there are many possibilities a message can be delayed (possible by many minutes) and showing a red cross all the time till the message is acked is a bit confusing for the average user who could be tempted to think the message got lost and resend it...
  67. Asterix I change the date of my machine, send a mail, and you think I send it 2 days ago (if you don't read mail headers)
  68. tmolitor asterix: well, wrong timestamps are indeed an issue here...
  69. Link Mauve “21:25:09 Asterix> […] then the reply will be sent when network comes back”, that’s assuming you will know the ack reply hasn’t been received.
  70. Link Mauve Two generals. :p
  71. Asterix this is TCP/IP. you know if a packet is sent or not
  72. tmolitor asterix: yes, but you don't know if it was received or not and if it's ack got lost or the initial data you sent...that's the whole point why smacks got introduced with its stanza counters...
  73. tmolitor I would only show the red cross when we receive an error stanza telling us that the message wasn't delivered...this way we can be sure the message really got lost...
  74. Asterix so with smack you know which packet is sent /received ...
  75. Link Mauve tmolitor, except you can’t assume your recipient has Stream Management enabled.
  76. tmolitor plus: the green error messages not showing which message exactly wasn't delivered can be removed and the right messages can just be marked with the red cross in that case...
  77. Asterix and where there is no cross, what will a user do: you don't know if it's received, so you send it again, so it's the same as showing the red cross
  78. tmolitor Link Mauve, yes...of course not...nor can you assume he will resume his session in time...
  79. Link Mauve In poezio I plan on adding an auto-resend feature in case we didn’t receive an ack or received an error, using Last Message Correction.
  80. Link Mauve I’m not sure how reliable it will be, though.
  81. Link Mauve tmolitor, error messages are marked with the id of the message you sent, so you do know which one it relates to.
  82. Asterix time to sleep. too tired GN
  83. Link Mauve \o_
  84. tmolitor asterix: no, showing nothing is by no means as strong as showing a red cross telling the user "this is an error, fix this" indicates gajim has detected an error where there is none (in reality just a timeout of 3 seconds happened)...
  85. tmolitor Link Mauve, I know, I already used this to show only errors related to real messages typed by the user and not automatic ones exchanged by gajim (like chat states and so on)...
  86. tmolitor asterix: gn8 :)
  87. Link Mauve tmolitor, advertizing 184 and not answering to a 184 ack request *is* an error.
  88. tmolitor Link Mauve, yes...I din't say it wasn't one ;)
  89. Link Mauve tmolitor, oh, but you want to display those errors to the user as well, don’t you?
  90. Link Mauve The one sent by chatstates for example.
  91. tmolitor but my proposal for the red cross would solve this, too (more or less by accident, though)...
  92. Link Mauve In MUC with a heavy rate limitation in place, I often receive an error as an answer to a chatstate, so I want to know why my chat state is desynchronized.
  93. tmolitor no...a user doesn't want to know if some of his (possibly already outdated) chat states didn't get delivered...
  94. Link Mauve In this case I will ask to become a member.
  95. tmolitor you even can't see which chatstate exactly caused the the info that some message containing just a chatstate didn't get delivered is more or less useless...
  96. tmolitor only in this very specific case of yours it is of at least some value...
  97. Link Mauve Another problem solved altogether by MIX!
  98. tmolitor but in your case you would also see an error if you send a real message which got deleted due of rate limiting...
  99. Link Mauve dwd was right to write “✔ Everything” on the whiteboard at the Summit, when we were talking about MIX. :D
  100. tmolitor MIX?
  101. Link Mauve XEP-0369.
  102. Link Mauve tmolitor, yes, but if I did see the error about the chatstate I would have waited longer before sending said message, and it wouldn’t have been deleted.
  103. tmolitor Link Mauve, well, I think that is a real corner case...maybe adding a setting to the ACE is enough for you...I bet there are only very! few people interested in seeing their message windows flooded with green error messages ;)
  104. tmolitor I'll add an ace setting for this if you want :)
  105. Link Mauve My error messages usually aren’t green. ^^
  106. Link Mauve And I don’t use Gajim.
  107. tmolitor Link Mauve, the default is green ;)
  108. Link Mauve So don’t try to design it around my needs. :p
  109. Link Mauve I’m aware they could be slightly different than what a standard human would have.
  110. tmolitor Link Mauve, okay...but the whole discussion about those error messages was "around your needs" ;)
  111. Link Mauve No, I really do think most people would prefer to know when something went wrong rather than just ignoring them.
  112. tmolitor yes...exactly why I added code to hide them a few weeks ago ;)
  113. Link Mauve Even if just so they can report useful bug reports.
  114. Link Mauve bbl dinner.
  115. tmolitor and I don't think so (based on 4 people I know of using gajim)...
  116. tmolitor Link Mauve, you cannot report a useful bug report when you only have a message telling you "something has happened"...
  117. tmolitor Link Mauve, see this bug report about those random error messages:
  118. tmolitor Link Mauve: especially this comment:
  119. arune tmolitor: we also have red crosses when using gajim and Conversations, it sure makes users confused
  120. arune (Not always red crosses but sometimes)
  121. arune And it would be better to signal correct behaviour as ok instead of signaling non correct behaviour as errors
  122. tmolitor Arune: I know...IT confused me, too...
  123. bot RSS: Feeds for Gajim • Ticket #8163 (Support XEP-0333: Chat Markers) updated Cc changed