botRSS: Feeds for Gajim Plugins
• Ticket #122 (Autocompression and autoreduction) created
If user want to send image, he should reduce size and weight of image manually.
Think it would be wonderful to autocompress and autoreduce image before sending.
https://trac-plugins.gajim.org/ticket/122
ganatronicI'm chatting with a friend and getting a yellow triangle after everything I type. "This icon indicates that this message has not yet been received by the remote end. If this icon stays for a long time, it's likely the message was lost." however, he's receiving the messages
Asterixganatronic: whixh Gajim version?
ganatronicwe're both using his own server, with a self-signed certificate. not sure if that has anything to do with it
Asterixcould you open XML console and whot what happens when you send him a message?
ganatronicversion 0.15.4
Asterixwow
Asterix0.15.4?
ganatronicuh
Asterixwhy that old?
ganatronicgood question
ganatronicno clue. updating... haha
Asterixyou should upgrade to 0.16.5
ganatronick
ganatronicI think this is the one that was in the repo I was using
ganatronicAsterix, I installed 0.6.15 and am still getting that error (but now it's a red X instead of a yellow triangle!) when I chat with my friend.
Asterixhe has the same version? he also updated to 0.16.5?
Asterixganatronic: ^
ganatronicAsterix, no he uses Profanity.
ganatronicAnd he's getting the messages, so this isn't a big deal or anything. It just seems strange
Asterixha. Then could you open XML console and show me what is printed when you send a message?
Asterix(you can hide JID and message in it)
Asterixganatronic: what comes to my mind: You contact's client announce it supports a feature, but it doesn't, or maybe not correctly? I'll see that in the XML you'll show me
ganatronicAsterix, this is my message: <!-- Out Mon 29 Feb 2016 12:10:21 PM PST -->
<message xmlns="jabber:client" to="zzzz@zzzz/profanity" type="chat" id="zzzz">
<body>test</body>
<active xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/chatstates" />
<request xmlns="urn:xmpp:receipts" />
<thread>zzzz</thread>
</message>
Asterixand no reply to that?
ganatronicand then the error shows up a few seconds later
ganatronictell me if I should unhide anything there
Asterixok thanks
Asterixcould you try to send that in the XML input and show me the result:
<iq id="a" to="zzzz@zzzz/profanity" type="get">
<query xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info" />
</iq>
Asterixok so indeed its client announce it supports <feature var='urn:xmpp:receipts'/>, but when you request it, it doesn't reply
Asterixso the bug is in its client
Asterixso he announce he can reply you when he received the message, and when you send a message with the tag "tell me when you get it" it doesn't reply ... so Gajim thinks it indeed didn't received it
ganatronicah interesting
ganatronicI hadn't chatted with him on xmpp in about a month. prior to this we were using a different server, and I wasn't getting the error. so I figured the issue was related to this new server setup. I don't know if he updated his client during that month
Asterixhmm there is no reason the server has something to do with that
ganatronick
botRSS: Feeds for Gajim
• Changeset [15960:9f7c62b5dbda]: Make last message correction wo[]
• Changeset [15961:85fc8e1684ff]: rename msg_id to msg_log_id whe[]
• Changeset [15962:5c6c77423355]: pending events are now in objec[]
• Ticket #8220 (Last […]
https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8220#comment:2
• Ticket #8220 (Last […]
https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8220#comment:3
• Changeset [15963:ad4236d5a427]: handle message correction corre[]
tmolitorasterix: I'm currently starting to add a delayed ag to all outgoing messages which are no automatic_messages...is that something you would considder to merge?
tmolitorasterix: well, see my mail I sent you a few days ago :)
tmolitorasterix: we could show the red cross for messages we receive an error stanza telling us the message wasn't delivered correctly and omit the cross mark for messages not yet acknowledged via xep-0184 completely....this would solve ganatronic's issue and would be more intuitive than the current behaviour...
Link Mauvetmolitor, in poezio by default we have a green check when a message has been ack’d, and a red cross when it has been nack’d by an error.
Link MauveLeaving the case with no sign as the ambiguous one it is.
Asterixtmolitor: yes I need to reply to your mail. why is it usefull to att a delay tag to all outgoing message?
tmolitorLink Mauve, exactly what I wanted to propose for gajim, too :)
Asterixfor XEP184, then this means XEP is useless ... Can we fight brocken clients?
Asterixwe can already have the green check on acked messages
Asterixbut in the XEP no reply means not delivered, no?
tmolitorasterix: well, sometimes the network connctivity is slow or smacks delays the delivery of a message and I would considder it useful to know the exact time when a message was sent...
Link MauveAsterix, it means you can’t know, really.
tmolitorasterix: yes, a green check for messages that got acked, but no sign for messages that are not (yet) acked...currently gajim displays this red cross after 3 seconds...
Link MauveThe recipient could be on some very bad network, or one-way network, and have received your message with no way to ack it.
tmolitorand yes, Link Mauve is right...no reply means you can't know...it could even be delivered later on by means of mam...
Asterixtmolitor: the question is, do we want to show the send time or received time?
Link MauveIf you receive an error though, you can be sure the recipient didn’t receive it.
Asterixin a network in which you can receive a normal stanza and not send a small one? then the reply will be sent when network comes back
tmolitorasterix: yes...good question ;) for usual conversations I would vote for the send time, because this is more accurate/natural for the conversation flow...
Asterixit's like emails ... I hate that it shows send time. Because if the machine doesn't have the correct time / date it's horrible
tmolitorasterix: well, see my mam case I used as an example...there are many possibilities a message can be delayed (possible by many minutes) and showing a red cross all the time till the message is acked is a bit confusing for the average user who could be tempted to think the message got lost and resend it...
AsterixI change the date of my machine, send a mail, and you think I send it 2 days ago (if you don't read mail headers)
tmolitorasterix: well, wrong timestamps are indeed an issue here...
Link Mauve“21:25:09 Asterix> […] then the reply will be sent when network comes back”, that’s assuming you will know the ack reply hasn’t been received.
Link MauveTwo generals. :p
Asterixthis is TCP/IP. you know if a packet is sent or not
tmolitorasterix: yes, but you don't know if it was received or not and if it's ack got lost or the initial data you sent...that's the whole point why smacks got introduced with its stanza counters...
tmolitorI would only show the red cross when we receive an error stanza telling us that the message wasn't delivered...this way we can be sure the message really got lost...
Asterixso with smack you know which packet is sent /received ...
Link Mauvetmolitor, except you can’t assume your recipient has Stream Management enabled.
tmolitorplus: the green error messages not showing which message exactly wasn't delivered can be removed and the right messages can just be marked with the red cross in that case...
Asterixand where there is no cross, what will a user do: you don't know if it's received, so you send it again, so it's the same as showing the red cross
tmolitorLink Mauve, yes...of course not...nor can you assume he will resume his session in time...
Link MauveIn poezio I plan on adding an auto-resend feature in case we didn’t receive an ack or received an error, using Last Message Correction.
Link MauveI’m not sure how reliable it will be, though.
Link Mauvetmolitor, error messages are marked with the id of the message you sent, so you do know which one it relates to.
Asterixtime to sleep. too tired GN
Link Mauve\o_
tmolitorasterix: no, showing nothing is by no means as strong as showing a red cross telling the user "this is an error, fix this"....it indicates gajim has detected an error where there is none (in reality just a timeout of 3 seconds happened)...
tmolitorLink Mauve, I know, I already used this to show only errors related to real messages typed by the user and not automatic ones exchanged by gajim (like chat states and so on)...
tmolitorasterix: gn8 :)
Link Mauvetmolitor, advertizing 184 and not answering to a 184 ack request *is* an error.
tmolitorLink Mauve, yes...I din't say it wasn't one ;)
Link Mauvetmolitor, oh, but you want to display those errors to the user as well, don’t you?
Link MauveThe one sent by chatstates for example.
tmolitorbut my proposal for the red cross would solve this, too (more or less by accident, though)...
Link MauveIn MUC with a heavy rate limitation in place, I often receive an error as an answer to a chatstate, so I want to know why my chat state is desynchronized.
tmolitorno...a user doesn't want to know if some of his (possibly already outdated) chat states didn't get delivered...
Link MauveIn this case I will ask to become a member.
tmolitoryou even can't see which chatstate exactly caused the error...so the info that some message containing just a chatstate didn't get delivered is more or less useless...
tmolitoronly in this very specific case of yours it is of at least some value...
Link MauveAnother problem solved altogether by MIX!
tmolitorbut in your case you would also see an error if you send a real message which got deleted due of rate limiting...
Link Mauvedwd was right to write “✔ Everything” on the whiteboard at the Summit, when we were talking about MIX. :D
tmolitorMIX?
Link MauveXEP-0369.
Link Mauvetmolitor, yes, but if I did see the error about the chatstate I would have waited longer before sending said message, and it wouldn’t have been deleted.
tmolitorLink Mauve, well, I think that is a real corner case...maybe adding a setting to the ACE is enough for you...I bet there are only very! few people interested in seeing their message windows flooded with green error messages ;)
tmolitorI'll add an ace setting for this if you want :)
Link MauveMy error messages usually aren’t green. ^^
Link MauveAnd I don’t use Gajim.
tmolitorLink Mauve, the default is green ;)
Link MauveSo don’t try to design it around my needs. :p
Link MauveI’m aware they could be slightly different than what a standard human would have.
tmolitorLink Mauve, okay...but the whole discussion about those error messages was "around your needs" ;)
Link MauveNo, I really do think most people would prefer to know when something went wrong rather than just ignoring them.
tmolitoryes...exactly why I added code to hide them a few weeks ago ;)
Link MauveEven if just so they can report useful bug reports.
Link Mauvebbl dinner.
tmolitorand I don't think so (based on 4 people I know of using gajim)...
tmolitorLink Mauve, you cannot report a useful bug report when you only have a message telling you "something has happened"...
tmolitorLink Mauve, see this bug report about those random error messages: https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8222
tmolitor Link Mauve: especially this comment: https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8222#comment:9
arunetmolitor: we also have red crosses when using gajim and Conversations, it sure makes users confused
arune(Not always red crosses but sometimes)
aruneAnd it would be better to signal correct behaviour as ok instead of signaling non correct behaviour as errors
tmolitorArune: I know...IT confused me, too...
botRSS: Feeds for Gajim
• Ticket #8163 (Support XEP-0333: Chat Markers) updated
Cc changed
https://trac.gajim.org/ticket/8163#comment:4