Gajim - 2014-07-20


  1. mkarg Announcement: inviticon yesterday release version 1.29.1 of the "Cheeky" emoticons theme. Besides many new emoticons in the package, a bug was fixed which made previous packages show a "Syntax Error" when using in Gajim. The latest version of this fully 3D-anmated emoticons can be downloaded for free at http://www.inviticon.eu/cheeky/latest-gajim, and there is also a new web site at http://www.inviticon.eu/cheeky with the announcement of a new merchandise shop. :-)
  2. Link Mauve The dither can look pretty bad, for example in http://www.inviticon.eu/cheeky/whatever.gif
  3. Link Mauve You could try to use a different palette, instead of dithering.
  4. mkarg It is not dithered. It is your software which does that.
  5. Link Mauve Huh, really?
  6. mkarg yep.
  7. Link Mauve I’m using Firefox right now.
  8. Link Mauve On other gifs it works fine.
  9. mkarg Too bad.
  10. mkarg But I guarantee you, it is NOT dithered. :-)
  11. Link Mauve Anyway, it looks very bad on my screen, you may want to fix that someday.
  12. mkarg We cannot fix that it looks bad particularly on your screen, as it looks good on the screens of the lots of other people -- and we do not have access to your PC settings. ;-)
  13. Link Mauve I’m pretty sure it doesn’t come from my screen or my configuration.
  14. mkarg Possibly you mean the shading on some of the emoticons. But on our screens (HD) it looks great on all IMs and browsers (tried it). So we're sorry it looks bad on yours, but it is off our reach to fix that, as it is not GIF-induced.
  15. Link Mauve Look at an upscaled print screen: http://linkmauve.fr/files/whatever.png
  16. Link Mauve I have no word for that other than dithering.
  17. mkarg I understand what you like to say. You mean the colour pattern found in the hair (different shades of red). Yes, this is some form of dithering, technically. But what problem do you have with that? In original size, I actually cannot see that on my screen -- unless I scale up the GIFs. But why should one do that?
  18. Link Mauve Change the gif palette to map more closely to the original colors, and remove any kind of dithering.
  19. Link Mauve And on my screen (24", 1920×1200) it looks bad even at normal resolution.
  20. mkarg Strange. I have 1920x1080 and do not see in what way it would look "bad". Anyways, this is open source. Feel free to optimize the GIF files and donate it back to our project. :-)
  21. Link Mauve Even for someone who doesn’t mind artifacts, seeing dithering can be tiring in the long term.
  22. Link Mauve Do you provide the source files?
  23. mkarg Why should we?
  24. Link Mauve Because you said it was open source.
  25. mkarg All files are available on github, and you could simply unpack the theme.
  26. Link Mauve And it’s pretty much impossible to get back the original quality after such a destructive operation (dithering) has been done.
  27. mkarg https://github.com/inviticon/cheeky
  28. Link Mauve What I mean by source files is the 3D models and animations you used.
  29. mkarg The 3D model is not open source, only the GIFs are.
  30. Link Mauve That’s not how open source works.
  31. mkarg You said one must solely optimize the colour palette. Just do it. :-)
  32. Link Mauve You can do that only from a high-quality version.
  33. mkarg ROTFL
  34. mkarg Palette optimization can be done simply with the GIFs.
  35. Link Mauve You can’t remove dithering that way.
  36. mkarg Well then you have to live with it.
  37. Link Mauve Anyway, as I told you before, I have no interest in emoticons, I was only suggesting you ideas that could make your images better.
  38. mkarg Thanks for your ideas. Given the fact that they are provided for free, we think they are rendered good enough. ;-)
  39. Link Mauve Do you sell higher-quality versions or something?
  40. mkarg No we do not make any money with it besides T-Shirts (shop coming in future).
  41. mkarg If you want to buy higher-quality, well, this is an idea, we could think about.
  42. Link Mauve I am not interested in emoticons at all.
  43. mkarg So why discussing it? ;-)
  44. Link Mauve I thought it was a pity to have a so ugly dithering in there, just that.
  45. mkarg okay thank you idee accepted :-)
  46. Link Mauve Also, open source implies you provide the source files for the generated binaries, in this case that would be the 3D models, the binaries being those gifs.
  47. Link Mauve Although that still wouldn’t work if you use a proprietary rendering engine, or a proprietary 3D editor.
  48. mkarg This is wrong (and notice, we are in the open source business for decades). Open source implies that the source files of the provided target binary is available. Here, the target binary is the theme archive (zip file), and the source files are the GIFs, the build files, and the transformation process. For least open source binaries you can obtain the source of the source. And this is the end of the discussion about the 3D model.
  49. Link Mauve This isn’t how the GPL works, you can’t say a deb file is the binary resulting of applying ar to some x86 binary and call it free software.
  50. Link Mauve “The "source code" for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it.”
  51. mkarg Right. You can modify THE THEME and you can modify THE GIFs, repack it, and publish THAT.
  52. Link Mauve I can’t make modifications to those gifs.
  53. mkarg You can. Load them into Gimp, draw funny things into it. Save as new theme.
  54. mkarg Sorry the discussion about law is finished. Ask you lawyer, or contact us if you want to buy the 3D model.
  55. Lukc Yes, just like you can edit binaries with a hex editor.
  56. Lukc Free Softtware.™
  57. Link Mauve mkarg, I don’t have a lawyer, and I have other things to do than to enforce the GPL everywhere I find a violation, still you should change your license if you don’t want to make free software.
  58. mkarg The work WE PROVIDE is GPL. Nothing else. If you don't like us to further provide free and great emoticon them for Gajim, just go on with the discussion and we will stop it.
  59. Link Mauve I don’t care, do what you want.
  60. Lukc mkarg, do you realize you just publicly said that the sources had to be bought?
  61. mkarg THE SOURCES ARE THE GIFS THE PRODUCT IS THE ZIP
  62. mkarg Also, GPL does NOT imply free (while we actually provide it for free).
  63. mkarg (free in the sense of no-money)
  64. Link Mauve No, it implies that if you have access to the binaries you get the sources.
  65. Lukc No, but you’re not supposed to provide the sources to anyone who has the binaries.
  66. Link Mauve You do provide the binaries for free, so the sources have to be free as well.
  67. mkarg ROTFL
  68. mkarg I will not further discuss this, as you really should ask your lawyer about your misunderstanding of the GPL. As I said, you are granted the right to use and modify the GIFs in any form you like. Not more. And there is no more discussion about this. Bye.
  69. Link Mauve See you.
  70. Link Mauve http://gpl-violations.org/ looks nice.
  71. Lukc Sooo… moron or liar?
  72. Link Mauve Moron, I guess.
  73. Lukc I say moron, because he seemed to believe it.
  74. Link Mauve https://conference.gajim.org:5281/muc_log/gajim/2014-07-20/ \o/
  75. syn_home hi everyone
  76. syn_home i heard gajim supports xep0136, but it won't send required stanzas to my server. how do i make it do so ?